Specifically, what is the character in the lower left? It looks odd and I cannot find it anywhere.
Oh, and one more question: why Chop Sue (or whatever that font is called). I'm getting very, very tired of graphic designers who think that everything with a Chinese/Japanese theme needs this font.
Dont worry Klemenz your work is great and i think you know it , and its a plus for the games , your graphics makes these games more plesant and makes them easier to play and learn.
Oh, and one more question: why Chop Sue (or whatever that font is called). I'm getting very, very tired of graphic designers who think that everything with a Chinese/Japanese theme needs this font.
Hey, it's not as bad as Papyrus yet. That even gets used for things that have nothing to do with ancient Egypt!
Well... there is something all 3 covers have in common...
The fact that they're child drawings?
Klemens, I guess that was meant as a compliment, as everybody knows, the most difficult drawing to immitate is a child drawing, right (speaking from father to father)? i couldn't draw, what my kids draw...
Specifically, what is the character in the lower left? It looks odd and I cannot find it anywhere.
Oh, and one more question: why Chop Sue (or whatever that font is called). I'm getting very, very tired of graphic designers who think that everything with a Chinese/Japanese theme needs this font.
南瓜
nan gua
pumpkin
(the smaller scripts to the right are transliterations of the designer's name and someone else I don't recognize)
Well... there is something all 3 covers have in common...
The fact that they're child drawings?
Klemens, I guess that was meant as a compliment, as everybody knows, the most difficult drawing to immitate is a child drawing, right (speaking from father to father)? i couldn't draw, what my kids draw...
and that's how I understood - the child-style gives a heavy game a light feeling - or something like that
Specifically, what is the character in the lower left? It looks odd and I cannot find it anywhere.
Oh, and one more question: why Chop Sue (or whatever that font is called). I'm getting very, very tired of graphic designers who think that everything with a Chinese/Japanese theme needs this font.
南瓜
nan gua
pumpkin
(the smaller scripts to the right are transliterations of the designer's name and someone else I don't recognize)
(edit 3 -- "gua" 瓜 just means melon or gourd and is used all over the place... 地瓜 sweet potato 西瓜 watermelon 黄瓜 cucumber 傻瓜 idiot)
Ah, yes of course. Silly me, I didn't recognize 瓜 because I thought it was something weird under the cliff radical...
Thumbs up for the Chinese character usage. There are many games with a Chinese/Japanese theme that mess this up. (But I still don't like the Chop Suey. It's an odd mixture of orientalism and designer laziness that really puts me off.)
So are there going to be a few that come out with similar box faces and sides? Like the series containing Puerto Rico and The Princes Of Florence?
If so the series is starting off very well. Agricola and Le Havre are two of the best games out. I appreciate the animation similarities in the two and blatant references to Agricola in Le Havre.(Anyone ever spot the Charcoal Burner from Agricola in Le Havre?)
(edit 3 -- "gua" 瓜 just means melon or gourd and is used all over the place... 地瓜 sweet potato 西瓜 watermelon 黄瓜 cucumber 傻瓜 idiot)
Ah, yes of course. Silly me, I didn't recognize 瓜 because I thought it was something weird under the cliff radical...
Thumbs up for the Chinese character usage. There are many games with a Chinese/Japanese theme that mess this up. (But I still don't like the Chop Suey. It's an odd mixture of orientalism and designer laziness that really puts me off.)
Don't take the font too serious - it's a cliché, I know. But it's like all Austrians can ski and yodel ;-) there are things that we expect... we tried quite a lot of different font-types and styles - and this one really worked well...
Don't take the font too serious - it's a cliché, I know. But it's like all Austrians can ski and yodel ;-) there are things that we expect...we tried quite a lot of different font-types and styles - and this one really worked well...
Your analogy is a bit flawed, though. People actually ski and yodel in Austria. Those cuneiform strokes of Chop Suey have absolutely no presence in China. They are an American invention of the early-20th century. Do you want to align your tastes with those of provincial Americans of the early-20th century?
Don't take the font too serious - it's a cliché, I know. But it's like all Austrians can ski and yodel ;-) there are things that we expect...we tried quite a lot of different font-types and styles - and this one really worked well...
You analogy is a bit flawed, though. People actually ski and yodel in Austria. Those cuneiform strokes of Chop Suey have absolutely no presence in China. They are an American invention of the early-20th century. Do you want to align your tastes with those of provincial Americans of the early-20th century?
Yes, it's flawed, but it's about clichés - I don't ski and I think not even 0,5% of Austrians can yodel.
And most of all: I wrote: "don't take it too serious" - probably you should do that too.
Just in case: I didn't want to offend people by using a specific font. If that's so, I'm really sorry. I think it's a decorative font and people associate it with Asia. Sorry, but that's a fact. And please ... "provincial Americans of the early-20th century" ... ?!?
Just in case: I didn't want to offend people by using a specific font. If that's so, I'm really sorry. I think it's a decorative font and people associate it with Asia. Sorry, but that's a fact.
Do not fret. Your use of that font does not offend me. I'm not so thin skinned. Look, I've even used it myself in my reprehensible homemade version of For Sale, Chinese Bride For Sale:
You're a designer, not an ethicist. And so I'm appealing to your sensibilities solely in your role as a designer. As such, you should realize this: Ignoring the illustration, if the cover you designed were a restaurant menu cover, my initial reaction would be that the food they serve is garbage. That Gates of Loyang is a game and not a restaurant doesn't change the fact of this book-by-its-cover judgment.
Just in case: I didn't want to offend people by using a specific font. If that's so, I'm really sorry. I think it's a decorative font and people associate it with Asia. Sorry, but that's a fact.
Do not fret. Your use of that font does not offend me. I'm not so thin skinned. Look, I've even used it myself in my reprehensible homemade version of For Sale, Chinese Bride For Sale:
You're a designer, not an ethicist. And so I'm appealing to your sensibilities solely in your role as a designer. As such, you must realize this: Ignoring the illustration, if the cover you designed were restaurant menu cover, my initial reaction would be that the food they serve is garbage. That Gates of Loyang is a game and not a restaurant doesn't change the fact of this book-by-its-cover judgment.
Don't take the font too serious - it's a cliché, I know. But it's like all Austrians can ski and yodel ;-) there are things that we expect...we tried quite a lot of different font-types and styles - and this one really worked well...
Your analogy is a bit flawed, though. People actually ski and yodel in Austria. Those cuneiform strokes of Chop Suey have absolutely no presence in China. They are an American invention of the early-20th century. Do you want to align your tastes with those of provincial Americans of the early-20th century?
The chop suey font comes from the original chop suey restaurants at the turn of the 20th century, which were owned by Chinese immigrants. It's not until much later that Americans appropriated Chinese cuisine. So your claim that it's "aligning with provincial Americans of the early 20th century" is not correct. But enough about you.
The chop suey font comes from the original chop suey restaurants at the turn of the 20th century, which were owned by Chinese immigrants. It's not until much later that Americans appropriated Chinese cuisine.
Chinese immigrants did not invent this font. The original was created by the Cleveland Type Foundry in the late 1800's. The interesting story of its origin and popularization can be read here:
I'm not feeding you any more after this response. Let me just say as a Chinese American, you're not speaking for anyone when you mischaracterize the chop suey font as something racially provincial. The type style has been used for about a century by Chinese owners of Chinese restaurants. And chop suey itself, while not a dish coming out of China, is a creation of Chinese immigrants in the US. I participated in your Chop Suey geeklist, but your position in this thread is unreasonable and appears to just be an attempt at trolling.
I'm not feeding you any more after this response. Let me just say as a Chinese American, you're not speaking for anyone when you mischaracterize the chop suey font as something racially provincial.
My misgivings about the box cover for At the Gates of Loyang do not stem from any racial sensitivities. This is purely a question of good design vs. bad design. And what we have here is bad design.
I'm not feeding you any more after this response. Let me just say as a Chinese American, you're not speaking for anyone when you mischaracterize the chop suey font as something racially provincial.
My misgivings about the box cover for At the Gates of Loyang do not stem from any racial sensitivities. This is purely a question of good design vs. bad design. And what we have here is bad design.
Thumbs up for the Chinese character usage. There are many games with a Chinese/Japanese theme that mess this up. (But I still don't like the Chop Suey. It's an odd mixture of orientalism and designer laziness that really puts me off.)
I'm sincerely curious about this... what specifically do you recommend?
Am I the only one that finds this cover beautiful and that has no problem with the font? Come on, I didn't know all this Chop Suey stuff before and easily recognized a Chinese theme looking at the font. Isn't it that what the designer wants?
lol. When I first saw it I thought it was her mouth open, but it sure does look like it is a lip or something.
Oh-oh - you're right. It really looks like a big lip where it should look like an open mouth. Klemens will change it. Thank you, folks!
hi ralph, if you decide to change the cover, you loose one buyer. I like women with big lips.
Good news for you: The woman we will show on the side of the cover has bigger lips than the woman on the front side. And I'm sure you will place the game upright besides Agricola and Le Havre. So you will see the woman on this side more often than the other one ...
lol. When I first saw it I thought it was her mouth open, but it sure does look like it is a lip or something.
Oh-oh - you're right. It really looks like a big lip where it should look like an open mouth. Klemens will change it. Thank you, folks!
hi ralph, if you decide to change the cover, you loose one buyer. I like women with big lips.
Good news for you: The woman we will show on the side of the cover has bigger lips than the woman on the front side. And I'm sure you will place the game upright besides Agricola and Le Havre. So you will see the woman on this side more often than the other one ...
What, not a guy? Loyang deliberately tries to be the big shot?
My misgivings about the box cover for At the Gates of Loyang do not stem from any racial sensitivities. This is purely a question of good design vs. bad design. And what we have here is bad design.
You can not blame him - do you know german culture very well? You can always try and write to Klemens the proper font he should use.
I also mentioned this in other forum - Is Loyang the proper name? Everywhere in the net the city name "Luòyáng" is more popular... But that will not change my desire to try the game!
Posted Wed Jul 8, 2009 9:45 pm
and that's how I understood - the child-style gives a heavy game a light feeling - or something like that 
Loyang deliberately tries to be the big shot? 
