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I don't know if it's awesome... If I was paid to create original artwork and then instead just copied a whole bunch of images straight off the internet, I think I would be ripping my client off. I find it disappointing. After seeing all these comparisons it makes the artwork laughable. Kinda taints the game experience.
I thought the same thing when I first saw that card. Even the relative position of the creases in the robe, head position and everything else (save for the lightsaber) are nearly identical.
I don't know if it's awesome... If I was paid to create original artwork and then instead just copied a whole bunch of images straight off the internet, I think I would be ripping my client off. I find it disappointing. After seeing all these comparisons it makes the artwork laughable. Kinda taints the game experience.
im guessing you are being sarcastic. that, or my sarcasm-o-matic is getting crazy false readings. In THAT case... well... LOL wow, this one's over your head!
I gotta agree with the people who think this is lame. For prototyping it might be ok, but for the final run it just seems lazy. And yes, I get "it".
I really like the fun aspect of it. It's not like the actual Tutor image is out of place anyway... (you don't see him wearing a lightsaber, nor any sci-fi junk... just a man in his robes, which is fitting for the theme)
This one does seem a concious nod to Star Wars, in a respectful way. You want awful???? Look for Liz Taylor and Richard Burton in Cleopatra and the Society of Architects. Proof that until recently, the artwork at Days of Wonder was far suckier than good.
This one does seem a concious nod to Star Wars, in a respectful way. You want awful???? Look for Liz Taylor and Richard Burton in Cleopatra and the Society of Architects. Proof that until recently, the artwork at Days of Wonder was far suckier than good.
I thought the same thing when I first saw that card. Even the relative position of the creases in the robe, head position and everything else (save for the lightsaber) are nearly identical.
But, Agricola would be far more awesome if the players did have lightsabers!
"A more elegant weapon from a more civilized age" Indeed! Building a stone house? I don't THINK so!
Looking for a copy of Key Town! Got a copy for trade?
Unicorniclops wrote:
Shiny Blue Robot wrote:
I don't know if it's awesome... If I was paid to create original artwork and then instead just copied a whole bunch of images straight off the internet, I think I would be ripping my client off. I find it disappointing. After seeing all these comparisons it makes the artwork laughable. Kinda taints the game experience.
im guessing you are being sarcastic. that, or my sarcasm-o-matic is getting crazy false readings. In THAT case... well... LOL wow, this one's over your head!
If it was just a card or two I would buy the homage theory. I think there are too many straight up references for it to qualify. These are straight up copies. A homage to the Carcassonne guy? A homage to Johnny Depp? Sadly, I think it shows a lack of creativity. I suppose if we're supposed to make the connection to all the references then I just don't get the joke and maybe it is over my head.
I don't know if it's awesome... If I was paid to create original artwork and then instead just copied a whole bunch of images straight off the internet, I think I would be ripping my client off. I find it disappointing. After seeing all these comparisons it makes the artwork laughable. Kinda taints the game experience.
im guessing you are being sarcastic. that, or my sarcasm-o-matic is getting crazy false readings. In THAT case... well... LOL wow, this one's over your head!
If it was just a card or two I would buy the homage theory. I think there are too many straight up references for it to qualify. These are straight up copies. A homage to the Carcassonne guy? A homage to Johnny Depp? Sadly, I think it shows a lack of creativity. I suppose if we're supposed to make the connection to all the references then I just don't get the joke and maybe it is over my head.
I don't know if it's awesome... If I was paid to create original artwork and then instead just copied a whole bunch of images straight off the internet, I think I would be ripping my client off. I find it disappointing. After seeing all these comparisons it makes the artwork laughable. Kinda taints the game experience.
im guessing you are being sarcastic. that, or my sarcasm-o-matic is getting crazy false readings. In THAT case... well... LOL wow, this one's over your head!
If it was just a card or two I would buy the homage theory. I think there are too many straight up references for it to qualify. These are straight up copies. A homage to the Carcassonne guy? A homage to Johnny Depp? Sadly, I think it shows a lack of creativity. I suppose if we're supposed to make the connection to all the references then I just don't get the joke and maybe it is over my head.
I don't know if it's awesome... If I was paid to create original artwork and then instead just copied a whole bunch of images straight off the internet, I think I would be ripping my client off. I find it disappointing. After seeing all these comparisons it makes the artwork laughable. Kinda taints the game experience.
im guessing you are being sarcastic. that, or my sarcasm-o-matic is getting crazy false readings. In THAT case... well... LOL wow, this one's over your head!
If it was just a card or two I would buy the homage theory. I think there are too many straight up references for it to qualify. These are straight up copies. A homage to the Carcassonne guy? A homage to Johnny Depp? Sadly, I think it shows a lack of creativity. I suppose if we're supposed to make the connection to all the references then I just don't get the joke and maybe it is over my head.
I agree. I know many people who follow Marvel Comics are upset at Greg Land for tracing over/photoshopping pictures of actors/actresses for comic books, why would this be different?
I don't know if it's awesome... If I was paid to create original artwork and then instead just copied a whole bunch of images straight off the internet, I think I would be ripping my client off. I find it disappointing. After seeing all these comparisons it makes the artwork laughable. Kinda taints the game experience.
im guessing you are being sarcastic. that, or my sarcasm-o-matic is getting crazy false readings. In THAT case... well... LOL wow, this one's over your head!
If it was just a card or two I would buy the homage theory. I think there are too many straight up references for it to qualify. These are straight up copies. A homage to the Carcassonne guy? A homage to Johnny Depp? Sadly, I think it shows a lack of creativity. I suppose if we're supposed to make the connection to all the references then I just don't get the joke and maybe it is over my head.
Dude, this is a game by geeks, for geeks. The target demographic is eating it up.
I suppose if we're supposed to make the connection to all the references then I just don't get the joke and maybe it is over my head.
That's my assessement. I really enjoy the reference and hope to find/learn of others. I also love the house tile which shows the Agricola game on the table. I believe the term for these types of things is "whimsy".
Now, we would be talking in different terms if the pose was of, say, a GW's Space Marine
This thread would have disappeared by now, and the commentators would be running away from Matrix-like enforcers from GW.
Reason: infringing ultra-sensitive patent/copyright/you name it by merely watching content related to the GW franchise without engrossing GW's coffers.
Looking for a copy of Key Town! Got a copy for trade?
Unicorniclops wrote:
Dude, this is a game by geeks, for geeks. The target demographic is eating it up.
You know, when you put it that way, it certainly does make more sense. I can see where I likely missed the point... I need to get more in touch with my geeky side. I was under the impression that the artist didn't want to come up with his own imagery and just googled his way through the character list. If the whole point was to have fun with the references then I guess I got my back up for nothing - and indeed this went over my head. I apologize if I have offended anyone.
If it was just a card or two I would buy the homage theory. I think there are too many straight up references for it to qualify. These are straight up copies. A homage to the Carcassonne guy? A homage to Johnny Depp? Sadly, I think it shows a lack of creativity. I suppose if we're supposed to make the connection to all the references then I just don't get the joke and maybe it is over my head.
Actually, we were aware that Klemens put lots of cameos in the artwork; we even did a quiz for SPIEL 2008 to see who find them all. I think it's not a lack of creativity, it's an abundance of creativity to sneak all those in.
I find that it is much harder to copy someone elses work than to come up with original art. The artist couldn't just trace this into existence. He had to put it into his own style, first, and then make sure you understood who the image was of. Fairly well done, if you ask me.
Anyone who thinks that artwork references like this have anything to do with a lack of talent, or creativity, is clearly not an artist, nor has studied art.
Every artist will tell you that all creativity is simply combining and referencing other's works from new perspectives. Good artists make constant references to prior works they admire, and the idea that making obvious direct references to geek culture is somehow lazy is simply laughable. It's far easier to draw up a 'tutor' as some guy with an educator's cap on his head and the paraphernalia of teaching around him. To make the image be true to the artists style yet so obviously reference a cultural icon as it does simply requires MORE ability than to do otherwise. And considering there are hundreds of cards and only a few references like this, it's a bad joke to suggest the artist (or publishers, or designers) did it out of laziness or lack of ability. Hell, even the inspiration to take a card someone gives you that says 'tutor' for a game about agricultural era farming, and think immediately of Obi Wan bespeaks creativity and imagination.
Quite frankly, speaking as a professional with a degree in arts, I am highly entertained and impressed with the cultural references in the cards, and give kudos to the artist and the designers for their creativity. And those who claim this is somehow a mark against them are simply uneducated and ignorant, or bitter about their own lack of success in the arts.
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Blackfaer wrote:
Anyone who thinks that artwork references like this have anything to do with a lack of talent, or creativity, is clearly not an artist, nor has studied art.
Quite frankly, speaking as a professional with a degree in arts, I am highly entertained and impressed with the cultural references in the cards, and give kudos to the artist and the designers for their creativity. And those who claim this is somehow a mark against them are simply uneducated and ignorant, or bitter about their own lack of success in the arts.
...sigh... (as I stated above), I missed the joke. And I apologized for coming off so heavy.
But Mark, clearly you're the expert! I'm glad you chimed in to educate us on how a professional sees this issue.
Granted, I have studied art, and I am an artist. I too have an art degree. As well, I make a living as a professional illustrator. I am quite happy with my success. So please don't call me uneducated, bitter or ignorant. I simply have a different point of view.
I really enjoy the artwork in Agricola (granted the box art isn't so great) and I think the illustration style works well for the game as a whole. I also think Le Havre is excellent and the artwork in that game is great. I have nothing against the artist himself. I was initially disappointed to discover that the illustrations were directly copied from the sources shown above. I didn't realize it was an inside joke.
To suggest that you have this all figured out because you have an art degree is total crap and you're talking out of your ass.
To suggest that you have this all figured out because you have an art degree is total crap and you're talking out of your ass.
Tim, sorry you took my response that way. I apologize if you feel I was aiming directly at you; I did see your apology about missing the joke but you weren't the only one claiming it was a lack of ability, and this isn't the first time I've seen people making this kind of claim.
I do apologize for suggesting that you are uneducated or bitter as an artist, as that's certainly not fair of me. Certainly there are differences of opinion, but the idea that copying work from other mediums is lazy, without having an understanding of the artist's intent or even the contract, is extremely disingenuous, and your hyperbole (as well as that of others) led me to hyperbole of my own. I regret that I fell into the trap of flaming in response to flame and I do apologize sincerely.
That said, I certainly did not claim to have it all figured out, and I was only pointing out my experience to show that I am more qualified than an average nobody to speak on issues of arts and originality. Having studied the arts I happen to have more knowledge of the creative process than your average board game player who might be on the geek. Certainly I don't claim to be the be-all end-all expert. Apparently, since you have since admitted that you missed the joke and may have been wrong, you also were talking out of your ass with your prior comments, so we're both on common ground here!
I suspect you will agree with me (if on little else) when I reiterate that nearly all art is inspired by some degree from other artwork, and that making references to other works is neither unusual nor shows a lack of ability (or laziness).
By no means do I claim that there cannot be lazy or lame artists out there who do nothing but copy others work - that said, this is hardly a case of that kind of thing. The idea that you put forth in your later reply is that since there are so many references that they were just 'straight up copies' and showed a 'lack of creativity'. If he were copying other artwork with a similar style, perhaps, but making a copy of a photograph of Johnny Depp as Don Juan De Marco, the greatest lover of all literary time, to put on a card for a lover in a farming game, is in no way showing a lack of creativity. A lack of creativity or laziness would be just showing a random guy with a rose in his teeth and his shirt open - just draw what comes to mind and call it good. Look at about any cover of any novel in the romance section of your local library for an example of uncreative lazy artwork.
What the hell is this "star wars" everyone keeps talking about?
I seem to recall some government project in the 80's by Reagan to stop the commies from attacking us called that, but then Ponyboy drank deer blood while Patrick Swayze yelled "Wolverines!" while making sure nobody backs baby in a corner.
I just want to illustrate my motivation behind all those references: Fun. It was really entertaining for me (and the whole Lookout team) to think of those references. I'm somewhat of a nerd myself, so including those cameos seemed somewhat natural to me.
But there probably even was a tiny element of lazyness - I searched for - and collected inspiration for the pictures on the cards before I started drawing. That was the only way to do all those drawings within the given time. Honestly (and this is not sarcastic), I would have loved to sit back and think about the motive for the card, drink some tea, meditate and then take two days to draw ...
Thanks for all the positive feedback. Thanks for the crtique.
Greetings, Klemens
There will be references in future games ... call it meta-game, call it lazyness - as long as you spot them, I'm happy.
I know all existing Star Wars movies. But who is the guy on this image? ;-)
That's Han Solo. This is the scene right before he throws the Ring into the lava in Mount Doom.
No, no. That's Dumbledore Calrissian and it's the scene where he's fighting the Cylons for control of the Starship Enterprise. Come on.
No no no! That's a picture someone took of me last week. I had gotten this powerful earth magnet from a science lab, and after placing it in my pants pocket, I decided to visit the "Museum of Metal Bars" ...
I'm getting really tired of ALL the references to past works of art. It's becoming a cliche to make some kind of reference to something that us 30somethings remember from our childhoods. We are becoming worse than the baby-boomers with our love and refusal to let go of our childhoods.
I just want to illustrate my motivation behind all those references: Fun. It was really entertaining for me (and the whole Lookout team) to think of those references. I'm somewhat of a nerd myself, so including those cameos seemed somewhat natural to me.
But there probably even was a tiny element of lazyness - I searched for - and collected inspiration for the pictures on the cards before I started drawing. That was the only way to do all those drawings within the given time. Honestly (and this is not sarcastic), I would have loved to sit back and think about the motive for the card, drink some tea, meditate and then take two days to draw ...
Thanks for all the positive feedback. Thanks for the crtique.
Greetings, Klemens
There will be references in future games ... call it meta-game, call it lazyness - as long as you spot them, I'm happy.
I have to ask, are all of the above posted references correct? Every comparison that's pointed out above is the one you made when you illustrated the card? Some of them seem like a reach to me, is why I ask.
Eh, it happens all the time all around. Lyrics and rhthym from one song inspires the next, scenes of one movie gets used in another movie, etc.
desertfox2004 wrote:
ReinhartTR wrote:
I thought the same thing when I first saw that card. Even the relative position of the creases in the robe, head position and everything else (save for the lightsaber) are nearly identical.
But, Agricola would be far more awesome if the players did have lightsabers!
"A more elegant weapon from a more civilized age" Indeed! Building a stone house? I don't THINK so!
I don't think I'd like THAT kind of tutor
But eh, probably an expansion in the works. They'll just call them "Fighter wizards with mystical energy swords"
desertfox2004 wrote:
pijll wrote:
Furan wrote:
Who the hell is Obi-Wan Kenobi?
Apparently, he's one of the main characters in Star Wars.
I'm not 100% sure, because I haven't seen the movie. I only read the book, and that is a while ago.
"because I haven't seen the movie"
"because I haven't seen the movie"
"because I haven't seen the movie"
Someone call 911 - I'm hyperventilating...hasn't seen Star Wars?!
That's impossible!
I haven't seen Gone With The Wind yet, so let's see how much flak I get for that. Yeah, I could just wikipedia the summary, but there's currently a queue on things for me to wiki
Also, I guess you'd say, an artist. Why is it that one can listen to Eminem all day or 2Pac or any of todays modern music and then get upset with any of the choices as to the artwork we see? Sampling is something that takes place so often in the audio that it is commonplace and yet visually there is supposed to be a problem with it? I don't get that.
Yes, artists make their own marks but sometimes those marks are made up of marks they've already seen or made before. There is nothing uncreative about that. All an artist is doing most of the time anyway is taking what we've experienced and making a rehash of it.
Give it a break.
