Yes, shrubberies are my trade. I am a shrubber. My name is Roger the Shrubber. I arrange, design, and sell shrubberies.
Oh, what sad times are these when passing ruffians can say Ni at will to old ladies. There is a pestilence upon this land, nothing is sacred. Even those who arrange & design shrubberies are under considerable economic stress in this period in history
She is the Chinese leader in Civilization V. I wonder if Mao's removal was due to his stigma?
I had hoped future leaders would provide different benefits to the civilization, as in Civilization IV.
I'm very happy that there is an alternative available for Mao. For me, choosing Mao as the leader of Chinese was rather odd in the first place - he represents the short, disastrous communistic era vs. almost 3000 years of dynasties, emperors, great achievements, and culture.
I would hate to see this thread RSP'd, but I have to say that it really really irritates me that the ideological discomfort we might have with Mao would lead to this sort of sanitizing of the game. I agree with Moblegend - Mao was not really a very good guy. But you know what? Neither was Caesar. Or Cleopatra. Or Kaiser W. Or Catherine. Lincoln comes out the cleanest of the bunch, and even he isn't sparkling. If they'd started with Wu Zeitan, that would be one thing, but starting with Mao, and then deciding he was too... whatever and changing it... that's the sort of thought policing I could do without.
I would hate to see this thread RSP'd, but I have to say that it really really irritates me that the ideological discomfort we might have with Mao would lead to this sort of sanitizing of the game. I agree with Moblegend - Mao was not really a very good guy. But you know what? Neither was Caesar. Or Cleopatra. Or Kaiser W. Or Catherine. Lincoln comes out the cleanest of the bunch, and even he isn't sparkling. If they'd started with Wu Zeitan, that would be one thing, but starting with Mao, and then deciding he was too... whatever and changing it... that's the sort of thought policing I could do without.
I prefer Wu Zeitan (being interested in early Chinese history) and feel she fits better in the idea of the game but I agree that they should have just left it at this point.
Allow me to introduce myself. I am Hexachlorophene J. Goodfortune, Kidnapper-At-Large, and Devourer of Tortoises par Excellence, at your service.
If you can read this, then this sentence is false.
Mao did kind of stand out as the only leader from recent history, i.e. the past century or so. And now the leaders are gender-balanced, which is kind of cool. I approve the change (and hope I can get a copy of the new card at some point).
As my Chinese history teacher put it: "Mao was a great revolutionary, but a lousy leader." Don't outright demonize him, he did a lot to get China on the move to modernization.
Wikipedia wrote:
Mao is credited with commanding the Long March and leading the Communist Party of China (CPC) to victory against Kuomintang (KMT) (or Guomindang (GMD)) in the Chinese Civil War, defeating an assortment of powerful regional warlords, and helping repel a Japanese invasion. Mao also enacted sweeping land reform, by overthrowing the feudal landlords and seizing their large estates, before dividing the land up among the people who worked it. Later, through his policies, he laid the economic, technological and cultural foundations of modern China, transforming the country from an underdeveloped peasant-based agrarian society into a major industrialized world power. However, he remains a controversial figure to this day, with a contentious legacy that is subject to continuing revision and fierce debate.
He is officially held in high regard in China as a great revolutionary, political strategist, military mastermind, and savior of the nation. Additionally, Mao is viewed as an intellectual, poet, philosopher, and visionary. Conversely, nationwide political campaigns led by Mao, such as the Great Leap Forward and the Cultural Revolution, are blamed for millions of deaths, causing severe famine and damage to the culture, society and economy of China. Moreover, although China's population almost doubled during the period of Mao's leadership (from around 550 to over 900 million), his rule from 1949 to 1976 is believed to have caused the deaths of 40 to 70 million people.
Despite the ongoing dispute, he is still regarded as one of the most important figures in modern world history, and was named one of the 100 most influential people of the 20th century by Time Magazine.
. . .
Deng Xiaoping, who was opposed to the Great Leap Forward and the Cultural Revolution, has to a certain extent rejected Mao's legacy, famously saying that Mao was "70% right and 30% wrong".
Moreover, although China's population almost doubled during the period of Mao's leadership (from around 550 to over 900 million), his rule from 1949 to 1976 is believed to have caused the deaths of 40 to 70 million people.
Can't make/bake a Communist paradise without breaking a few million eggs (sorry 10s of millions) as long as they were all rich and middle class eggs it is forgivable.
... that's the sort of thought policing I could do without.
Why do you assume "thought policing"? Designers/publishers are allowed to make changes to their games, and a number of other factors have been pointed out as to why they may have wanted to make this change. Perhaps, if anything, the ultimate reason for the change is is capitalism and (perceived?) market forces indicating more games will be sold this way, not an idealism sanitation.
Allow me to introduce myself. I am Hexachlorophene J. Goodfortune, Kidnapper-At-Large, and Devourer of Tortoises par Excellence, at your service.
If you can read this, then this sentence is false.
Pierzasty wrote:
Holy crap they actually remade it!
Now hoping they'd make a Stalin card for the Russians, with their Communism and all...
Please no. That would wreck the gender balance again, and I would not want to play the Russians with Stalin as the leader, for the same reason that Mao was mildly objectionable.
I got a chance to speak with Kevin Wilson at Strategicon, and he told me the real reason. FFG's Chinese manufacturer said that China is not allowed to depict Chairman Mao in any demeaning form, including him losing the game.
Mao did kind of stand out as the only leader from recent history, i.e. the past century or so. And now the leaders are gender-balanced, which is kind of cool. I approve the change (and hope I can get a copy of the new card at some point).
I got a chance to speak with Kevin Wilson at Strategicon, and he told me the real reason. FFG's Chinese manufacturer said that China is not allowed to depict Chairman Mao in any demeaning form, including him losing the game.
clearly the right solution would be for anybody who picks the chinese to be declared the winner
I got a chance to speak with Kevin Wilson at Strategicon, and he told me the real reason. FFG's Chinese manufacturer said that China is not allowed to depict Chairman Mao in any demeaning form, including him losing the game.
In China,you draw Mao as a game character,then you die.
