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Subject: Problems with the tower? rss

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Tom
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We played the game last night and almost ever time every cube we put in the tower came out. During the seeding only three stayed. As a result most of the time the tower only had 0-3 cubes left in it. It got to the point that everyone was taking the same actions and there was not that typical Feld tension. In fact I decided to break the cycle and when 7 white came out and I was in last place I rushed to first. While being first was somewhat helpful it just didn't seem to mater that much. The tower just didn't seem to add to the game. I even thought the tower might be defective so I busted out my shogun tower and they looked identical. Anyone have that same problem?
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Jon Ben
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Of course I've been up all night! Not because of caffeine, it was insomnia. I couldn't stop thinking about coffee.
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Do you have the same problem with the shogun tower? If not, how do you explain that?
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Christoph M.
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Yes, I also noticed that most of the cubes immediately come out again. I dpn't have that kind of problem with the Wallenstein tower. Perhaps the Wallenstein (and Shogun) cubes are smaller? Haven't compared them yet.

On the other hand, perhaps it's the same with the shogun/Wallenstein tower and cubes. Due to the nature of the game and the number of (different) cubes, you won#t notice it that much in Wallenstein/Shogun as in Amerigo.

But I suppose it's tested that way and as such it is wanted. Usually we get 5-7 cubes of the color entered + 0-3 single cubes of different color. That seems ok.
 
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Bryan Thunkd
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Where you dropping them in from straight above or kinda tossing them in from the side?

 
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Bernhard W
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It seemed to work really nicely in Rahdo's runthrough
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James Clarke
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I accept that a cube tower is an attractive and interesting object, and we'd love to find a use for it which justifies the additional cost and box size.

Chris Coyote wrote:
.........Usually we get 5-7 cubes of the color entered + 0-3 single cubes of different color. That seems ok.

OK, so the active colour always comes out along with a few others, and the action point number sits randomly between about 4 & 7.

I suspect that with a suitable pattern of numbering, a set of 7 or 8 coloured dice would have accomplished the same job, much simpler.



 
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David B
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Highland Cow wrote:

I accept that a cube tower is an attractive and interesting object, and we'd love to find a use for it which justifies the additional cost and box size.

Chris Coyote wrote:
.........Usually we get 5-7 cubes of the color entered + 0-3 single cubes of different color. That seems ok.

OK, so the active colour always comes out along with a few others, and the action point number sits randomly between about 4 & 7.

I suspect that with a suitable pattern of numbering, a set of 7 or 8 coloured dice would accomplish the same job, much simpler.






Sounds like an idea for an expansion for Macao.
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Tom
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Thunkd wrote:
Where you dropping them in from straight above or kinda tossing them in from the side?



We tried multiple methods and the same thing happened. Methods tried: all at once from say 7 inches above; all at once from a few inches above; all at the samE time; at a time from one at a time from high above; one at a time from the side.

When I played shogun, there was always a lot more seeded anD every battle seemed hard to predict with at times no cubes coming out. Honestly I think the shogun cubes are smaller but then again my amerigo cubes vary in size but the variance is minimal. I just got really bored when 7 cubes went in and the same seven came out so there often was no choice but to do the current coloR action, take money or have a color cube changing tile and have the kind of flexibility to choose your actions more. In a 4 player game it seemed like the choices were few and way too obvious, all the islands were completed, and towards the last turn little we could do. The pirates only affected people three times and once again it did not feel Feldian?

I get the tower and have played shogun and wallerstein at least 35 times and have never had this drop problem, where you could guess the cube outcome and be right 90 percent of the time. I want to say thE tower was built wrong but it came pre built and I compared it. I wonder if there should be a seeding rule where you keep seeding till at least x cubes don't come out.

To re-hash the problem the tower didn't matter most of the time because if we through in 7 blue we got out 7 blue.
 
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Tom
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Highland Cow wrote:

I accept that a cube tower is an attractive and interesting object, and we'd love to find a use for it which justifies the additional cost and box size.

Chris Coyote wrote:
.........Usually we get 5-7 cubes of the color entered + 0-3 single cubes of different color. That seems ok.

OK, so the active colour always comes out along with a few others, and the action point number sits randomly between about 4 & 7.

I suspect that with a suitable pattern of numbering, a set of 7 or 8 coloured dice would accomplish the same job, much simpler.




Actually in our game is was more like 6-8 was the norm.
 
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James Clarke
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Please everyone, no more Faulty Tower jokes.
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Tom
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JonBen wrote:
Do you have the same problem with the shogun tower? If not, how do you explain that?

Don't have the same problem which is why I am scratching my head. I suspect it might be you take the two players who are fighting plus green cubes to make it a challenge plus in the beginning stages of shogun there are less cubes being put in because the battleS are smalleR. It also might be that the tower is not used every turn so perhaps my memory is skewed. I think some of the cubes in amerigo are slightly bigger.

Ultimately, check my collection, I am a big fan of Feld, but this game just fell extremely flat so I am inclined to think we did something wrong but I haven't found the reason.

 
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Tom
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BeloW06 wrote:
It seemed to work really nicely in Rahdo's runthrough


Watch enough of his videos and you will find out he frequently gets two or more things wrong with the rules often major things wrong. I don't follow anyone's video explanation as gospel although I truly like rahdo because I think he is an enthusiastic caffeine junkie who doesn't take himself too seriously. ( I don't know if he drinks coffee but he acts like it. He also goes off on tangents which I find amusing).

Side someone already had a defective tower perhaps people's cube sizes are not consistent. We had a second game of three going at the same time and they seemed to like the game so I am stumped.
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Chris McMahon
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I did not notice a problem with the tower during game play. Once in a while all the cubes came out the same, but that should be expected. We also had some cubes that appeared never to come out.

However, my tower was not put together correctly when I received it. It also had 'frayed' ends that I needed to glue. I also noticed that the inserts looked to be placed wrong.

I put the inserts back in with the colored letter facing down and inserted into the same colored letter in the tower walls.




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Tom
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Leppy wrote:
I did not notice a problem with the tower during game play. Once in a while all the cubes came out the same, but that should be expected. We also had some cubes that appeared never to come out.

However, my tower was not put together correctly when I received it. It also had 'frayed' ends that I needed to glue. I also noticed that the inserts looked to be placed wrong.

I put the inserts back in with the colored letter facing down and inserted into the same colored letter in the tower walls.






Ok this is more like it. If the insert was put together wrong (my friends copy) that might explain it. To further explain, it seemed every time we dropped cubes all came back out with only a few exceptions when one stayed.
 
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Jon Ben
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Of course I've been up all night! Not because of caffeine, it was insomnia. I couldn't stop thinking about coffee.
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Highland Cow wrote:
I suspect that with a suitable pattern of numbering, a set of 7 or 8 coloured dice would have accomplished the same job, much simpler.


Dice do not have memories, unlike the tower. The probability of future events depends on which cubes are seeded in the tower, and how immovably stuck they become in there. It is impossible to accomplish this with dice.

As to the OP, I can understand your frustration. The tower is not supposed to let all the cubes pass through all the time. Have you tried putting the Amerigo cubes through your shogun tower?
You say the choices are always obvious as to which action to select but even if a single 'off-colour' cube shows up you get to do that action at the strength defined by the largest group of same coloured cubes. Even if 90% of the cubes went straight through I still imagine some interesting decisions would be created.
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Bryan Thunkd
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JonBen wrote:
You say the choices are always obvious as to which action to select but even if a single 'off-colour' cube shows up you get to do that action at the strength defined by the largest group of same coloured cubes

This is an important point that I hope you aren't missing. 1 white cube and 5 brown cubes equals a choice of either a 5 value white action or a 5 value brown action.
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Jon Ben
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Of course I've been up all night! Not because of caffeine, it was insomnia. I couldn't stop thinking about coffee.
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Thunkd wrote:
JonBen wrote:
You say the choices are always obvious as to which action to select but even if a single 'off-colour' cube shows up you get to do that action at the strength defined by the largest group of same coloured cubes

This is an important point that I hope you aren't missing. 1 white cube and 5 brown cubes equals a choice of either a 5 value white action or a 5 value brown action.


Yes exactly, that agrees with what I said. I was checking that the OP understands that point.
 
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Bryan Thunkd
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JonBen wrote:
Thunkd wrote:
JonBen wrote:
You say the choices are always obvious as to which action to select but even if a single 'off-colour' cube shows up you get to do that action at the strength defined by the largest group of same coloured cubes

This is an important point that I hope you aren't missing. 1 white cube and 5 brown cubes equals a choice of either a 5 value white action or a 5 value brown action.


Yes exactly, that agrees with what I said. I was checking that the OP understands that point.

Yup. That's who my comment was directed at.
 
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James Clarke
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BeloW06 wrote:
It seemed to work really nicely in Rahdo's runthrough

Yes, Rahdo's tower seems to perform much better than the OPs.

I recall with Wallenstein, that the orientation of the internal platforms was critical. So much so, that the platforms and the tower were marked with As and Bs to ensure that they were assembled properly. I don't have Amerigo, so I cannot check whether it's tower components are similarly marked.

I suggest you check that your platforms are at the right level, right way round and right side up.

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Tom
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Thunkd wrote:
JonBen wrote:
You say the choices are always obvious as to which action to select but even if a single 'off-colour' cube shows up you get to do that action at the strength defined by the largest group of same coloured cubes

This is an important point that I hope you aren't missing. 1 white cube and 5 brown cubes equals a choice of either a 5 value white action or a 5 value brown action.

Yep I know this but when the tower is empty which was at least 80 percent of the time it was one cube color. When there was San extra cube or two it usually was from the previous drop. So in other words there was only once or twice when a white cube drop produced a red, blue, or black cube.
Literally without hyperbole if I dropped six white I got six white 8 times out of ten.
 
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David B
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I'm not sure how fragile the tower is. But if it is fragile, that's a lot of money riding on the functionality of that thing. Any of those platforms inside get messed up, it seems like the game is ruined.
 
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Bernhard W
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johnnyspys wrote:
I want to say thE tower was built wrong but it came pre built and I compared it.

Highland Cow wrote:
I recall with Wallenstein, that the orientation of the internal platforms was critical. So much so, that the platforms and the tower were marked with As and Bs to ensure that they were assembled properly. I don't have Amerigo, so I cannot check whether it's tower components are similarly marked.

Is it possible to take the tower apart and try to check how it was set together?

I can understand that you are put off by Rahdos videos, but if you just skip to the bits where he throws cube into the tower (Initial seeding at 2:00, then at 6:10, 12:23, 19:45,...) you'll see how it was meant to work.

It's quite disappointing that there have been already several problems reported with the production of Amerigo, which is not a cheap game.
 
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Tom
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BeloW06 wrote:
johnnyspys wrote:
I want to say thE tower was built wrong but it came pre built and I compared it.

Highland Cow wrote:
I recall with Wallenstein, that the orientation of the internal platforms was critical. So much so, that the platforms and the tower were marked with As and Bs to ensure that they were assembled properly. I don't have Amerigo, so I cannot check whether it's tower components are similarly marked.

Is it possible to take the tower apart and try to check how it was set together?

I can understand that you are put off by Rahdos videos, but if you just skip to the bits where he throws cube into the tower (Initial seeding at 2:00, then at 6:10, 12:23, 19:45,...) you'll see how it was meant to work.

It's quite disappointing that there have been already several problems reported with the production of Amerigo, which is not a cheap game.


I am not put off by Rahdos videos and I am not sure how you arrived at that conclusion based on what I wrote. I simply don't hero worship people who make videos, so if things work for them I don't arrive at the conclusion they will work for me. Further I take what reviewers in general have to say with a grain of salt...if they like something that is awesome but I still may not like it. Even further, Rahdo does make several mistakes...I don't have a problem with that in fact he is very honest about it and corrects his videos when he finds out. However, he is a fan and seems to love games unconditionally, or at least is less critical of games than I.


The ultimate point is just because I am having a problems doesn't mean I think the game is ruined, and just because he didn't have a problem doesn't mean I think the game doesn't have problems. Right now I am asking people their experiences because I don't know the answer and I am hoping to glean through inquiry anything I could fix or could have done wrong.

The sad thing is I am not sure people are carefully reading my posts. I have not said the game sucks, is broken, the rules are bad, etc. I am asking if they have had any problems. Some have, others have suggested trying to fix the tower. Further, I have the general impression that it is possible this is meant to be a very very simple game with a flashy mechanic (the tower) and that perhaps this should be viewed as a intro filler which is fine but not for me.
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Chris McMahon
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The tower is just cardboard that is folded with tabs. It can be taken apart easily if needed. It is the same construction as the Shogun tower.

I've played 3 times now. I think the more the tower is used, the better it is working.

You may need to drop some cubes through it to 'roughen' it up and remove the 'new shine' of the printed cardboard.

Also, as pointed out a couple times above, the maximum color number determines the action points for any color action matching cubes that come out. Therefor 6 blue and 1 red would allow you to do the plan action for 6 action points.
 
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James Clarke
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Let’s assume that Rhado’s tower is a typical tower, which behaves as the designer intended. At the start of the video, he throws in 49 cubes. The tower keeps 16 of these and lets 33 out. Thereafter, we see him throwing in cubes 8 more times. After each throw, the number of cubes left behind in the tower is 14, 13, 14, 15, 14, 11, 12, 13 (an average of 13.25 cubes). Although it’s a small sample, it seems that the tower's cube storage capability remains reasonably constant.

Let X be the characteristic storage value of a tower. Therefore, using the small sample of data on Rhado’s tower, X=13.25 cubes.

It appears from the OP's description that his tower retains very few cubes, he says 0-3, (i.e. X=1.5?). This suggests that there is something very wrong with that tower, which was why I suggested that it might be wrongly assembled. It is also possible that one of the platforms has a bit missing?



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