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Through the Ages: A New Story of Civilization» Forums » Rules

Subject: Can I choose not to produce? rss

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Fernando Freire
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So, this happened in my last game:

my blue bank was almost empty and I had far too much food. Could I choose to not produce food so I could save the tokens for the resource?
 
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Ben Kyo
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Nope.
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Chris
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If in doubt, apply theme.

Why would you nations mines and farms all decide to take the week off?

YOU are not producing, your nation is.
 
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Steve Norton
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Except in this game a turn represents a period of time that is often closer to a century than a week. If a nation had an abundance of food but little/no industry then I'm sure the rulers of the day would be able to address the matter within that sort of timescale.

Just playing devils advocate here. I agree that production is not optional but don't think theme helps explain why not.
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Jonathan Maisonneuve
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ReggieMcFly wrote:
Except in this game a turn represents a period of time that is often closer to a century than a week. If a nation had an abundance of food but little/no industry then I'm sure the rulers of the day would be able to address the matter within that sort of timescale.

Just playing devils advocate here. I agree that production is not optional but don't think theme helps explain why not.


They tried that with coffee in the real world. They burned all the coffee to reduce the supply because the demand was not high enough for the quantity they were producing. They ended up with even more coffee.
 
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Chris
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ReggieMcFly wrote:
I agree that production is not optional but don't think theme helps explain why not.

Well I guess theme can be squinted at to achieve anything, but if you wanted to not produce, you should need to play a yellow card to block it or something. Fundamental point on the theme though is that it's the people doing what they do, not your political decisions
 
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David Larkin
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Re-balancing your production is allowed for in the game. You can use a civil action to decommission a farm, then it wont produce. You can use then use another civil action to reallocate it to something else.

Obviously it is better to avoid the need for this through better planning but things don't always work out the way you plan
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David desJardins
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TheRocketSurgeon wrote:
If in doubt, apply theme.


When I'm in doubt, I read the rules.
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Fernando Freire
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DaviddesJ wrote:
TheRocketSurgeon wrote:
If in doubt, apply theme.


When I'm in doubt, I read the rules.


When I'm in doubt, I ask you guys =]
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Chris
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DaviddesJ wrote:
TheRocketSurgeon wrote:
If in doubt, apply theme.


When I'm in doubt, I read the rules.

That's not the point. When a game is thematic things make sense with the rules. You can confidently guess what the rules will be and what makes sense. Responding to some whine git who's pissed off because they thought they could do XYZ but you've told them they can't, adn they say "WhyyyyyyYY???", it's MUCH better for everyone involved to be able to say "because from the theme it would mean.... " rather than "coz rules". It makes them shut up a lot sooner in my experience.
 
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David desJardins
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TheRocketSurgeon wrote:
When a game is thematic things make sense with the rules.


That's a tautological statement, it's the definition of "thematic". But it begs the question of whether Through the Ages is thematic. Leaders live for thousands of years, the quantity of resources you can store is determined by your mining technology, some players have precognition of events that will happen centuries in the future, etc., etc. The game is thematic in some ways and not in others, and the way to determine whether it's thematic in any particular aspect is to read the rules.
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Len
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TheRocketSurgeon wrote:
DaviddesJ wrote:
TheRocketSurgeon wrote:
If in doubt, apply theme.


When I'm in doubt, I read the rules.

That's not the point. When a game is thematic things make sense with the rules. You can confidently guess what the rules will be and what makes sense. Responding to some whine git who's pissed off because they thought they could do XYZ but you've told them they can't, adn they say "WhyyyyyyYY???", it's MUCH better for everyone involved to be able to say "because from the theme it would mean.... " rather than "coz rules". It makes them shut up a lot sooner in my experience.


A quick glance at this thread in response to your post indicates that this is not true.
 
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Garth Tams
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TheRocketSurgeon wrote:
DaviddesJ wrote:
TheRocketSurgeon wrote:
If in doubt, apply theme.


When I'm in doubt, I read the rules.

That's not the point. When a game is thematic things make sense with the rules. You can confidently guess what the rules will be and what makes sense. Responding to some whine git who's pissed off because they thought they could do XYZ but you've told them they can't, adn they say "WhyyyyyyYY???", it's MUCH better for everyone involved to be able to say "because from the theme it would mean.... " rather than "coz rules". It makes them shut up a lot sooner in my experience.


If Through the Ages is a thematic game, then I must not know what the word "theme" means. This model of game could be pasted on any number of themes and function the exact same. Worker allocation with hand and resource management. Pretty much could be used on any theme from racing to space exploration.
 
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Ben Kyo
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Mabuchi wrote:
If Through the Ages is a thematic game, then I must not know what the word "theme" means.

And this despite the fact you have access to Google and any number of dictionaries!
 
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Chris
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DaviddesJ wrote:
TheRocketSurgeon wrote:
When a game is thematic things make sense with the rules.


That's a tautological statement, it's the definition of "thematic". But it begs the question of whether Through the Ages is thematic.


You're not legally allowed to use the word "Tautology" if you don't know what "Begging the question" means

And it's not a tautology anyway, it's an explanation ...

Mabuchi wrote:
If Through the Ages is a thematic game, then I must not know what the word "theme" means.


... because some people appear to need it.
 
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David desJardins
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TheRocketSurgeon wrote:
You're not legally allowed to use the word "Tautology" if you don't know what "Begging the question" means


Huh? I know exactly what begging the question means. Do you? It means assuming the conclusion of your argument as part of your argument. In your case, you assumed that TTA is thematic in order to conclude that you can determine how to play from considering the theme, i.e., to conclude that it is thematic.
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Parker McParker
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DaviddesJ wrote:
TheRocketSurgeon wrote:
You're not legally allowed to use the word "Tautology" if you don't know what "Begging the question" means


Huh? I know exactly what begging the question means. Do you? It means assuming the conclusion of your argument as part of your argument. In your case, you assumed that TTA is thematic in order to conclude that you can determine how to play from considering the theme, i.e., to conclude that it is thematic.


This usage is not widely found in the UK. The phrase has morphed to mean simply "raises the question" and would be understood as such by all but a few pedants. Perhaps, given the dodgy etymology of the phrase, it's all to the good that it is slipping into the history books and will soon be a footnote in dictionaries.
 
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David desJardins
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MLBath wrote:
This usage is not widely found in the UK. The phrase has morphed to mean simply "raises the question" and would be understood as such by all but a few pedants.


Anyone who's read Aristotle knows what "begging the question" is. Surely that's more than just "pedants". I admit that most people don't know what it means, but surely there's something odd about criticizing the person who actually does know what it means for using it correctly.
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Parker McParker
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DaviddesJ wrote:
MLBath wrote:
This usage is not widely found in the UK. The phrase has morphed to mean simply "raises the question" and would be understood as such by all but a few pedants.


Anyone who's read Aristotle knows what "begging the question" is. Surely that's more than just "pedants". I admit that most people don't know what it means, but surely there's something odd about criticizing the person who actually does know what it means for using it correctly.


People who've read Aristotle know some of the history of the phrase, but you'd be acting like King Cnut if you maintained that was the current meaning (at least in the UK). Nothing odd about criticising someone who appears not to know the living meaning of the phrase, although I'll admit this could be a confusion between usage in different countries. In fact, I think it's a helpful thing to do if it makes you look less of a Cnut in future.
 
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Ben Kyo
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Quit dragging the UK into this, I don't think it is a regional thing. Regardless of what you consider the "living meaning" to be, the original accusation was absurd, especially in its attempt to claim some kind of high ground in lexical knowledge.
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Jason Reid
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MLBath wrote:
This usage is not widely found in the UK. The phrase has morphed to mean simply "raises the question" and would be understood as such by all but a few pedants.


"Pedants" are people who insist on correcting others. When someone uses a phrase correctly in the first place, we call those people "Educated".

I don't know what a "King Cnut" is. Perhaps has something to do with "correcting" someone, turning out to be wrong, and then doubling down on the insults while laying waste to a piece of the English language in order to avoid the horrible experience of having to say, "Oops, I was wrong. I guess I learned something today."
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nandoneves2404 wrote:
DaviddesJ wrote:
TheRocketSurgeon wrote:
If in doubt, apply theme.


When I'm in doubt, I read the rules.


When I'm in doubt, I ask you guys =]
When in doubt, GeekMail DdJ. He'll set you straight.
 
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Clyde W
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TheRocketSurgeon wrote:
DaviddesJ wrote:
TheRocketSurgeon wrote:
If in doubt, apply theme.


When I'm in doubt, I read the rules.

That's not the point. When a game is thematic things make sense with the rules. You can confidently guess what the rules will be and what makes sense. Responding to some whine git who's pissed off because they thought they could do XYZ but you've told them they can't, adn they say "WhyyyyyyYY???", it's MUCH better for everyone involved to be able to say "because from the theme it would mean.... " rather than "coz rules". It makes them shut up a lot sooner in my experience.
For me, it is exactly opposite.
 
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David Larkin
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jasonwocky wrote:

I don't know what a "King Cnut" is.

He was a Danish guy who laid claim to a bit of old Albion. He is reputed to have boasted that even the sea would obey him which didn't quite work out when put to the test. Images of a King on a throne trying to stop the incoming tide spring to mind
 
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MLBath wrote:
DaviddesJ wrote:
TheRocketSurgeon wrote:
You're not legally allowed to use the word "Tautology" if you don't know what "Begging the question" means


Huh? I know exactly what begging the question means. Do you? It means assuming the conclusion of your argument as part of your argument. In your case, you assumed that TTA is thematic in order to conclude that you can determine how to play from considering the theme, i.e., to conclude that it is thematic.


This usage is not widely found in the UK. The phrase has morphed to mean simply "raises the question" and would be understood as such by all but a few pedants. Perhaps, given the dodgy etymology of the phrase, it's all to the good that it is slipping into the history books and will soon be a footnote in dictionaries.

When people think a common misuse of a word or phrase trumps the actual meaning it literally makes my head explode.
 
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