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Scythe» Forums » Rules

Subject: What if everyone could riverwalk into any space? Except lakes rss

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Jonathan Er
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Has anyone tried this?
This would make the rules explanation easier and the tracking of everyone's movement easier as well

But what could the unbalance be between each faction?
I've only played once so I'm not in the position to know how badly it affects the game
Anyone who has more experience able to chime in?
 
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bort
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Jion wrote:
This would make the rules explanation easier and the tracking of everyone's movement easier as well


I dont think this is a good enough reason to want to do it

 
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James Mathias
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It was like that in play testing and Jamey found it made the game feel too aggressive so they changed it to help with the pacing.
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Jason Brown
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jmathias wrote:
It was like that in play testing and Jamey found it made the game feel too aggressive so they changed it to help with the pacing.

This is one of the most balanced designs I've ever played. When in doubt, trust that Jamey had a reason.
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Jamey Stegmaier
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Yeah, there's a big reason riverwalk is the way it is: Without it, aggressive players would move out of their home area and directly into an opponent's home area, which was very frustrating for the vast majority of playtesters. Engine-building is a huge part of what makes Scythe enjoyable, and interrupting a player's ability to focus on that (by distracting them with an invasion) really detracts from the experience.
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Becq Starforged
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jameystegmaier wrote:
Yeah, there's a big reason riverwalk is the way it is: Without it, aggressive players would move out of their home area and directly into an opponent's home area, which was very frustrating for the vast majority of playtesters. Engine-building is a huge part of what makes Scythe enjoyable, and interrupting a player's ability to focus on that (by distracting them with an invasion) really detracts from the experience.

I think he meant that riverwalk would still be necessary to cross the rivers, but that all factions would have a generic riverwalk allowing them to cross any river, regardless of terrain.
 
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Jamey Stegmaier
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Right, I understood it. I'm saying that if Riverwalk isn't limited by the destination terrain, aggressive players will use it to walk out of their home area and directly into an adjacent opponent's home area. It happened quite a bit in wave 1 blind playtesting before we changed it, and playtesters universally liked the change.
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Jonathan Er
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Thanks all, and Jamey

I asked because in our first play, there were many breaks in the game when people asked or lifted up pieces to see if they could walk there (or if others could walk into their spaces)

And as a player, it was kinda frustrating to keep having to remember who can enter what and from where
Really made the experience slightly tedious and less fun
 
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Darrell Goodridge
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The big reference cards weren't a clue as to who can do what?
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Jonathan Er
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Cardboardjunkie wrote:
The big reference cards weren't a clue as to who can do what?


It is clearly printed there
But with the presence of tunnels and mines and double hex movement, everything took awhile for the 3 new players (4 player game) to be able to track the every possibility of movement into whichever hexes
 
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Jamey Stegmaier
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Jonathan: Yeah, I get that. It's an extra layer of complication, one I would not have added if it weren't necessary to remove a much greater element of frustration.
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Paul Ferguson
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It would be silly, the restriction are there for a reason and make for a slow progression, which is what you need at the start, otherwise a player could be on the back foot very early from an attack and never recover.
 
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Cindy M
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I suppose if this is really an issue for your group, to maybe make a house rule that you can Riverwalk into any region, but that you may not enter any faction's home base area?
 
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Jamey Stegmaier
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Cindy: That could work, though the way I calibrated Riverwalk, it does allow you to get into some home areas--just not adjacent opponents (directly from your home area). I think it's important that there's some access possible later in the game to prevent extreme turtling.
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Jonathan Er
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jameystegmaier wrote:
Cindy: That could work, though the way I calibrated Riverwalk, it does allow you to get into some home areas--just not adjacent opponents (directly from your home area). I think it's important that there's some access possible later in the game to prevent extreme turtling.


Actually, having looked at the map and the possibilities, its seems like instead of rivers, it could have just been walls and each faction only has 1 entry and exit point

So the middle ground is definitely fighting area, and when someone is threatening your faction ground, you will be able to see it coming

The red faction would have lost the most as their riverwalk allows them to have 3 exit points


Anyway, not complaining about it, just wondering what could have been done to make it easier
Last thing i want are my new players not wanting to play it cos there's just too many things to keep track of

I will just try to get cubes of each color to mark who can enter where, hopefully that makes things better for all
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Michael Logan
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Jion wrote:
jameystegmaier wrote:
Cindy: That could work, though the way I calibrated Riverwalk, it does allow you to get into some home areas--just not adjacent opponents (directly from your home area). I think it's important that there's some access possible later in the game to prevent extreme turtling.


Actually, having looked at the map and the possibilities, its seems like instead of rivers, it could have just been walls and each faction only has 1 entry and exit point

So the middle ground is definitely fighting area, and when someone is threatening your faction ground, you will be able to see it coming

The red faction would have lost the most as their riverwalk allows them to have 3 exit points


Anyway, not complaining about it, just wondering what could have been done to make it easier
Last thing i want are my new players not wanting to play it cos there's just too many things to keep track of

I will just try to get cubes of each color to mark who can enter where, hopefully that makes things better for all


The summary cards already show who can enter where. It shouldn't be too hard to explain river walk.
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Ben Rubinstein

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mfl134 wrote:
Jion wrote:
jameystegmaier wrote:
Cindy: That could work, though the way I calibrated Riverwalk, it does allow you to get into some home areas--just not adjacent opponents (directly from your home area). I think it's important that there's some access possible later in the game to prevent extreme turtling.


Actually, having looked at the map and the possibilities, its seems like instead of rivers, it could have just been walls and each faction only has 1 entry and exit point

So the middle ground is definitely fighting area, and when someone is threatening your faction ground, you will be able to see it coming

The red faction would have lost the most as their riverwalk allows them to have 3 exit points


Anyway, not complaining about it, just wondering what could have been done to make it easier
Last thing i want are my new players not wanting to play it cos there's just too many things to keep track of

I will just try to get cubes of each color to mark who can enter where, hopefully that makes things better for all


The summary cards already show who can enter where. It shouldn't be too hard to explain river walk.


Interesting! My first thought was that riverwalk was needlessly complex. But then again I didn't ever use the summary card. I didn't even know there was one until after I played! I guess that just shows how intuitive the rest of the game is.
 
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Alex G
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jameystegmaier wrote:
Cindy: That could work, though the way I calibrated Riverwalk, it does allow you to get into some home areas--just not adjacent opponents (directly from your home area). I think it's important that there's some access possible later in the game to prevent extreme turtling.


I don't think there's any way Russviet can enter Nordic's territory. Can someone double check? They can only riverwalk to plains and Village, neither of those exist inside Nordic's homeland.
 
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Jamey Stegmaier
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Alex: That's correct.

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Danwarr
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From looking at the PnP board right now, the Nords are indeed 100% insulated from the Rusviet Union.



 
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