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Clash of Cultures: Civilizations» Forums » General

Subject: Questions rss

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Daniel Grant
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1. Does this expansion alter the usual start of Irrigation/Happy/Collect?

2. Does Z-man typically announce reprints long before they actually get to the stores, or do announcements come immediately before release?

3. Any suggestions for finding a copy below $100?
 
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Karl Ruppelt
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The expansion or the base game?
 
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Daniel Grant
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Expansion.
 
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Karl Ruppelt
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Can't help with that, sorry. As you've undoubtedly already seen for yourself, you can get a copy for the princely sum of 503 bucks on Amazonshake Who pays that kind of money!!!! I guess I'm one of the lucky ones as I snagged a copy as soon as it was released based on my love of the base game.
 
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Jatta Pake wrote:
1. Does this expansion alter the usual start of Irrigation/Happy/Collect?

2. Does Z-man typically announce reprints long before they actually get to the stores, or do announcements come immediately before release?

3. Any suggestions for finding a copy below $100?


1. It might, for some civilizations. It's probably still a good starting move. Not enough games to really say.

2. Based on discussions from previous threads, a reprint seems unlikely. The argument goes like this: The per-copy cost of production drops significantly when you increase number of copies in a print run. However, with an expansion the absolute maximum number of copies that make sense is the number of base games sold, minus the number of expansions sold so far (minus some). This makes it likely that the print run would simply be too small to be economically feasible.
Disclaimer: I can't read the minds of people at Z-man, and I'm not in the gaming industry. I merely echo pieces of opinion from these forums, filtered by my common sense.

3. Blackmail? Mug someone in a dark alley? Hope that 3d printing gets so ridiculously cheap that you can copy the miniatures and everything else from a friend's copy?
 
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Christopher Grace
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Asperamanca wrote:
Jatta Pake wrote:
1. Does this expansion alter the usual start of Irrigation/Happy/Collect?

2. Does Z-man typically announce reprints long before they actually get to the stores, or do announcements come immediately before release?

3. Any suggestions for finding a copy below $100?


1. It might, for some civilizations. It's probably still a good starting move. Not enough games to really say.

2. Based on discussions from previous threads, a reprint seems unlikely. The argument goes like this: The per-copy cost of production drops significantly when you increase number of copies in a print run. However, with an expansion the absolute maximum number of copies that make sense is the number of base games sold, minus the number of expansions sold so far (minus some). This makes it likely that the print run would simply be too small to be economically feasible.
Disclaimer: I can't read the minds of people at Z-man, and I'm not in the gaming industry. I merely echo pieces of opinion from these forums, filtered by my common sense.

3. Blackmail? Mug someone in a dark alley? Hope that 3d printing gets so ridiculously cheap that you can copy the miniatures and everything else from a friend's copy?


I grabbed a new copy from jolly thinkers in Hong Kong last week for under $100 shipped. Ymmv
 
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Jonathan Challis
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Jatta Pake wrote:
1. Does this expansion alter the usual start of Irrigation/Happy/Collect?


Myths/Happy/Collect is stronger for a start...
 
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Humulus Lupulus
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I don't agree that that's the only viable start. Even in the base game. I often Explore rather than Irrigate, or Collect.

The different civs might alter what you might want to Advance though.
 
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Jonathan Challis
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There's also the Settler/Move/Move opening...

If you think there is only one opening turn, and strategy then you are blind to a lot of the possibilities, and you are playing your own game rather adjusting to your opponents. For example Irrigation/Happy/Collect has a high probability to develop into a Democracy/optimisation engine, and the best way to counter that is the double Settler opening into Taxes/Autocracy and end the game halfway through...
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Daniel Grant
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Kelanen wrote:
There's also the Settler/Move/Move opening...

If you think there is only one opening turn, and strategy then you are blind to a lot of the possibilities, and you are playing your own game rather adjusting to your opponents. For example Irrigation/Happy/Collect has a high probability to develop into a Democracy/optimisation engine, and the best way to counter that is the double Settler opening into Taxes/Autocracy and end the game halfway through...


No, I'm still a novice at the game. I did win our last game not doing the Irrigation/Happy/Collect open when all of the other players did, but I felt like I caused myself to have a big starting deficit.

Settler/Move/Move seems dangerous if you pop a Barbarian settlement next door. If that happens and an opponent uses Mercenaries, a Barbarian roll of 5 or 6 can knock you out of the game before the first Status Phase. The risk might be low but the potential impact is extreme - losing a four hour game in the first 15 minutes.

I probably am "blind to a lot of the possibilities". Besides Settler/Move/Move and Irrigation/Happy/Collect, what are other opening strategies?

And as a follow up, does the expansion offer any alternative opening moves?

Thank you for your response!
 
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Daniel Grant
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Asperamanca wrote:


1. It might, for some civilizations. It's probably still a good starting move. Not enough games to really say.

Thanks!

Asperamanca wrote:

2. Based on discussions from previous threads, a reprint seems unlikely. The argument goes like this: The per-copy cost of production drops significantly when you increase number of copies in a print run. However, with an expansion the absolute maximum number of copies that make sense is the number of base games sold, minus the number of expansions sold so far (minus some). This makes it likely that the print run would simply be too small to be economically feasible.
Disclaimer: I can't read the minds of people at Z-man, and I'm not in the gaming industry. I merely echo pieces of opinion from these forums, filtered by my common sense.


I hope this isn't the case. This is a really good game and deserves more love from players.

Asperamanca wrote:

3. Blackmail? Mug someone in a dark alley? Hope that 3d printing gets so ridiculously cheap that you can copy the miniatures and everything else from a friend's copy?


Yeah, I'm fairly talented at DIY game modification so I might have to consider an alterntaive. I'll be posting some of my mod work on the base game shortly.

krztoff wrote:

I grabbed a new copy from jolly thinkers in Hong Kong last week for under $100 shipped. Ymmv


Awesome, I'll check them out.

Kelanen wrote:


Myths/Happy/Collect is stronger for a start...


I'm curious how this is stronger as Irrigation lets you grab 2 Food for another Settler or Advance on the second turn. Are you building an Army with 1 Food and 1 Ore? Or using two Actions to collect enough for a Temple once the Settler founds a second settlement?

Desiderata wrote:
I don't agree that that's the only viable start. Even in the base game. I often Explore rather than Irrigate, or Collect.

The different civs might alter what you might want to Advance though.


Exploring seems risky. It is possible to pop a Barbarian Settlement. If an opponent uses Mercanaries and the Barbarian rolls a 5 or 6, you can be knocked out of the game before the first Status Phase. Risk may be very low but the impact is extreme.

Thank you all for your replies!!!
 
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Humulus Lupulus
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https://boardgamegeek.com/article/12765487#12765487
https://boardgamegeek.com/article/17086974#17086974
https://boardgamegeek.com/article/16502573#16502573
https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/876531/good-opening-moves
https://boardgamegeek.com/article/17866731#17866731
https://boardgamegeek.com/article/17302328#17302328

From the designer:
Quote:
Other option to consider are:

Getting Fishing or Myths so you are ready for building buildings.

You can also get a second settler immediately and move out two settlers at the beginning of the game, getting 3 cities very fast. Remember to move them one at a time so they dont both get stuck in a mountain

Watch the terrain. If both cities have access to water, maybe Fising makes more sense than irrigation. But yeah.. Immunity to Famine is nic. Keep in mind though that Events dont come before a few turns in so you hould have some time before you needto worry about the Events

Going for Writing and then one of the other happiness advances within Education can also be nifty to get your "Ideas" engine going.

Options, options, options. But yes. Geneally get Happiness fast and get a happy city fast.

 
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N P
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krztoff wrote:
Asperamanca wrote:
Jatta Pake wrote:
1. Does this expansion alter the usual start of Irrigation/Happy/Collect?

2. Does Z-man typically announce reprints long before they actually get to the stores, or do announcements come immediately before release?

3. Any suggestions for finding a copy below $100?


1. It might, for some civilizations. It's probably still a good starting move. Not enough games to really say.

2. Based on discussions from previous threads, a reprint seems unlikely. The argument goes like this: The per-copy cost of production drops significantly when you increase number of copies in a print run. However, with an expansion the absolute maximum number of copies that make sense is the number of base games sold, minus the number of expansions sold so far (minus some). This makes it likely that the print run would simply be too small to be economically feasible.
Disclaimer: I can't read the minds of people at Z-man, and I'm not in the gaming industry. I merely echo pieces of opinion from these forums, filtered by my common sense.

3. Blackmail? Mug someone in a dark alley? Hope that 3d printing gets so ridiculously cheap that you can copy the miniatures and everything else from a friend's copy?


I grabbed a new copy from jolly thinkers in Hong Kong last week for under $100 shipped. Ymmv



Out of stock. I tried them last week. I think you got the last one.
 
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Daniel Grant
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Desiderata wrote:

I saw those other threads but they seem to reinforce the idea that Irrigation/Happy/Collect is the most solid first turn open.

Settler/Move/Move on the first turn introduces the possibility of being knocked out of the game right away.

Hmmm...I guess the way to stay safe with Settler/Move/Move is to keep one Settler home to absorb as a casualty if Barbarians are used with a Mercenaries card.

Desiderata wrote:

From the designer:
Quote:
Other option to consider are:

Getting Fishing or Myths so you are ready for building buildings.

You can also get a second settler immediately and move out two settlers at the beginning of the game, getting 3 cities very fast. Remember to move them one at a time so they dont both get stuck in a mountain

Watch the terrain. If both cities have access to water, maybe Fising makes more sense than irrigation. But yeah.. Immunity to Famine is nic. Keep in mind though that Events dont come before a few turns in so you hould have some time before you needto worry about the Events

Going for Writing and then one of the other happiness advances within Education can also be nifty to get your "Ideas" engine going.

Options, options, options. But yes. Geneally get Happiness fast and get a happy city fast.



Things to think about.
 
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Jonathan Challis
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Jatta Pake wrote:

Settler/Move/Move seems dangerous if you pop a Barbarian settlement next door. If that happens and an opponent uses Mercenaries, a Barbarian roll of 5 or 6 can knock you out of the game before the first Status Phase. The risk might be low but the potential impact is extreme - losing a four hour game in the first 15 minutes.


The risk is zero unless you choose to make it otherwise.

Remember, that in the first third of the game, maybe more the only one that can possibly trigger Barbarians attacking you, is you! The risk is small (maybe 15% without the cardlist in front of me, and then a 33% of that attack being successful - so 5% overall), but if you don't want that risk, then don't take it until you have a Fortress or an Army or two. Personally I'll happily take a 5% risk past the first event or two, but you can easily avoid it if you choose.

Beginning players tend to see Barbarians as a threat, more experienced players as an opportunity. I actively WANT to get Barbarians when I'm sending those double scouts out - it's the best possible result.

Jatta Pake wrote:

I probably am "blind to a lot of the possibilities". Besides Settler/Move/Move and Irrigation/Happy/Collect, what are other opening strategies?


In a vacuum, I think Myths is much better than Irrigation, Irrigation is just a crutch, if you plan your turns correctly, you hardly ever need it, and Famine is not that common or bad.

If you are going with any plan involving moving 1-2 Settlers on turn 1-2, then do that first and look for water (and move so you can place it next to your city), in which case Fishing is much better also.

I always want something that gives me a building type and lets me grow my city by turn two, and Fishing/Myths both do that whilst still letting me make it Happy at size 1, Irrigation only accomplishes half of that.

As to Civilisations - well honestly, every Civ changes your valuation of techs, and they all make a big change.
 
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Brent Wilson
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For your first question:

Yes, the expansion offers several civs opening moves that are better than yellow advance/civic improvement / collect

I've found it refreshing to take advantage of those new opportunities.



 
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Ramalingam Raghavan
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There are a few people who are willing to trade, but at a cost.
So you would rather trade 2:1 or 3;1 the games which
don't hit the table anymore.
Expansion atm being oop is in high demand.
If u have a similar oop like At the gates of Loyang r something u might get a better deal
 
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