$18.00
GeekGold Bonus for All Supporters: 78.69

5,307 Supporters

$15 min for supporter badge & GeekGold bonus
33.4% of Goal | 27 Days Left

Support:

Recommend
5 
 Thumb up
 Hide
27 Posts
1 , 2  Next »   | 

Zombicide: Black Plague» Forums » Variants

Subject: Locked Chest, Special Equipment Deck, and Lockpicks rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Eduardo Ortiz
United States
Texas
flag msg tools
So, like many others in this forum, I have found vault weapons to be very over powered. They quickly turn a tense experience into a breeze. And the truth is that the magical weapons from the Wulfsburg expansion feel similar as well. I do understand that when you add more abominations and different types of enemies like Dead Eye Archers difficulty does go up. But I don't want to have to add all these different types of zombies to make the experience more tense. I want it to feel tense right from the start, as soon as you see walkers coming for you. I feel like the game does start tense, because you only have weak weapons and spells to fight, which makes even the simplest of walkers a threat, I really like this. So my solution isn't necessarily to take out these weapons from the Equipment deck, but to limit how many you can find in any given game.

My proposed solution is to create the Locked Chest item and a Special Equipment deck. I took the mechanic from Warhammer Quest: The Adventure Card Game. The way they do it is like this. They have a limited number of "Treasure Cards" in the explore (search) deck, which have a depiction of a treasure chest. When you find one of these cards you simply pull a card from another deck, the equipment deck. By doing this they limit how many equipment upgrades a team of players can find in any given game.

So my idea is to move all the magical gear from Wulsburg and all vault weapons to this new Special Equipment deck. I will in turn include 3-4 Locked Chest item cards in the normal equipment deck. Also, when you go to a vault, you simply draw a card from the Special Equipment deck when you open the Vault Chest, which are drawn directly on the vault tiles.

Another note, the Locked Chest has to be opened like a door, in other words, with a weapon that can open doors or a LOCKPICK.

LOCKPICK: I had introduced the idea of a Lockpick in another thread. I think having the Locked Chests makes the Lockpicks even more useful. Lockpicks can open both doors and Locked Chests.

A final idea I'm considering is making the Vault Chests be openable only with a Lockpick. As in, they are considered to be locked but are too strong to break with a weapon. Hence making the Lockpicks more important, and doesn't give you access to two strong weapons from the very beginning of the game.

Here's the new cards. I include 2 Lockpicks in the deck and 4 Locked Chests. Will add more gameplay feedback once I'm able to test them properly.



I Include 4 Locked Chest cards in the Equipment/Search Deck.



I Include 2 Lockpick cards in the Equipment/Search Deck.

I have made the cards so that you can print them at 100% and they will be the exact size of a normal Z:BP card.

UPDATE 1: I've made the chests (Locked and Vaults) give you three Equipment cards (2 regular, 1 special) when you open them instead of just one Special Equipment card. This makes it easier to cycle through the equipment deck without feeling like you need to search every single turn. It also makes chests more fun as they feel like a box of goodies. If you find an "Aaahh!!" card, just shuffle it back into the deck and take a new one. I've played it multiple times (and will continue to play it this way)like this and definitely makes the chests feel more exciting when you find one. I include 4 Locked Chest cards in the Equipment/Search Deck.

UPDATE 2: I have replaced the card images with the ones I'm currently using in game. After testing multiple times, this ones are the ones I think work best. A note on the Lockpick, I made them so that you just get the Break-in skill, seemed like the most logical thing to do. You also have to use them from your hand now. I also took out both Axe Cards from my search deck, as they are now replaced by two of these Lockpick cards.

UPDATE 3: I've been using the Vault Chests (which are drawn directly on the vault tiles) just like a Locked Chest but without the "locked" part. In other words they are free to open with just a simple action and give you one Special Equipment card and two regular Equipment cards. I've played it multiples times like this and really like it.

Try them out and let me know how you like them!
7 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Emivaldo Sousa
Brazil
flag msg tools
designer
mbmbmbmbmb
I think the lockpick is too similar to a weapon if it stays like that.

I would make it a one time only item usable from the backpack, opening the door automatically and then being discarded.

Or an item that has to be in hand and you spend two actions, but open the door guaranteed.

in both instances it would not make noise.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Eduardo Ortiz
United States
Texas
flag msg tools
I had already created a version that worked liked that, but had decided that I liked the other one better. Either way here it is. I'll prob try both and see which one makes more sense. If I did go with this version then I would include 4-6 cards of it in the deck.

3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Emivaldo Sousa
Brazil
flag msg tools
designer
mbmbmbmbmb
In that case I would make it a little bit more reliable to work (3+) than a weapon. It is a very interesting item I just think it has to distance itself from the weapon mechanism.

Great work on the art

 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Eduardo Ortiz
United States
Texas
flag msg tools
zinho73 wrote:
In that case I would make it a little bit more reliable to work (3+) than a weapon. It is a very interesting item I just think it has to distance itself from the weapon mechanism.

Great work on the art



Yeah I agree with you, I do think it does need to work different enough from a weapon to make it interesting and worth having in game. I do want to try both options (dice roll vs instant) and see what makes more sense. Will update after being able to play enough times.

And thanks on the art, but it's not original. It's stuff I've pulled from the internet and photoshopped to make it work for the cards. The Lockpick art is from Skyrim, haha. But I do have to say that it does work well here, after applying a few filters and such. =)
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jack Reda
United States
Herndon
Virginia
flag msg tools
designer
Guess the games in my uberbadge!
badge
My favorite game is Cosmic Encounter.
mbmbmbmbmb
I might even consider something like "Spend two actions to open the lock, or 1 action to try and open it on a roll of 3 or more". The hero who spends more time on it can guarantee the unlock, but if you're in a hurry, you can risk it.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Peter Baker
United Kingdom
Ferndown
Dorset
flag msg tools
Nice use of the Skyrim lock pick, shh don't tell Bethesda.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Eduardo Ortiz
United States
Texas
flag msg tools
Digimortal wrote:
Nice use of the Skyrim lock pick, shh don't tell Bethesda.


Haha, thanks.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Eduardo Ortiz
United States
Texas
flag msg tools
The Warp wrote:
I might even consider something like "Spend two actions to open the lock, or 1 action to try and open it on a roll of 3 or more". The hero who spends more time on it can guarantee the unlock, but if you're in a hurry, you can risk it.


I feel like the "1 action to try and open it on a roll of 3 or more" part would be the same thing as using a weapon, so they already have that option, pretty much. The 2 actions is an interesting idea, i'll think about it some more.

I think the balancing aspect of the Lockpicks is that they're limited. So even if they are overly efficient in their use (1 action, guaranteed open), you will only find a couple through out the game. So you still have to make good use of them, decide carefully where to spend them. Specially if the Vault Chests require them to be opened. That's why I don't mind if they are quick and to the point: spend an action, open a door.

On the other hand, the first option (rolling dice) allows the Lockpick to be an equipable item, kinda like the Plenty of Arrows Item. Something you equip on your backpack and can keep using over and over (if it doesn't break). That might be too OP, not sure, specially if a ranged combat character has it, since they now have the accuracy of ranged/magic combat plus the fact that they can now open doors quietly and efficiently. Because of this I think I'm starting to lean towards the second option. We'll see how it goes.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jack Reda
United States
Herndon
Virginia
flag msg tools
designer
Guess the games in my uberbadge!
badge
My favorite game is Cosmic Encounter.
mbmbmbmbmb
One of the main differences between rolling with a lockpick and using a weapon is the noise. Most of our weapon options are going to involve smashing the door open.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Eduardo Ortiz
United States
Texas
flag msg tools
The Warp wrote:
One of the main differences between rolling with a lockpick and using a weapon is the noise. Most of our weapon options are going to involve smashing the door open.


Correct. Now the question is, is that difference alone worth adding the lockpick to the game? Or should it also work differently enough is order to justify its existence from a design point of view? That's what I'm trying to figure out.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jack Reda
United States
Herndon
Virginia
flag msg tools
designer
Guess the games in my uberbadge!
badge
My favorite game is Cosmic Encounter.
mbmbmbmbmb
It depends on the importance one places on the noise factor. I don't really find it adds much to the game and wish it were a bigger deal. Just pointing out that the roll mechanic is not technically the same as using a weapon. Regardless, the lockpick is still probably worth having in there.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Eduardo Ortiz
United States
Texas
flag msg tools
The Warp wrote:
It depends on the importance one places on the noise factor. I don't really find it adds much to the game and wish it were a bigger deal. Just pointing out that the roll mechanic is not technically the same as using a weapon. Regardless, the lockpick is still probably worth having in there.


Yes, I agree, i do feel like noise needs to play a more important role in the game. I feel like that's prob the next mechanic that I will try to tweak, how important noise is. But yeah, going from that premise, having Lockpicks will definitely be a good addition to the game, since it lets you control how much noise you're making.

If I do tweak the noise mechanic to matter more, then having the first Lockpick option (roll based) or spending two actions would make more sense. If not, then the second option (one action, guaranteed open) would probably be better.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Gutripper
Denmark
Copenhagen
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Like the chest idea a lot! Massive Darkness chests will slot right in for use here...
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Eduardo Ortiz
United States
Texas
flag msg tools
Gutripper wrote:
Like the chest idea a lot! Massive Darkness chests will slot right in for use here...


Glad you like it! Hopefully we can turn it into something that works really well with the whole of the game =)
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Torgeir Ådland
msg tools
Hm, how about changing it to 2d6?
2: lockpick destroyed
3-4: action fail
5-9: open lock with noice
10-12: open lock noiselessly

I like the potential for catastrophic failure, but should be stronger than pretty much any weapon (except axe) for opening doors/locks. Hence failure should be less uncommon than 1/3, but should still occur from time to time. Also 1/6 is a high rate of catastrophic failure; 1/12 seems much more reasonable to me...
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Eduardo Ortiz
United States
Texas
flag msg tools
The Warp wrote:
I don't really find it adds much to the game and wish it were a bigger deal.


I think the simplest way to make the noise mechanic a bit more useful would be to add items to the equipment deck which are designed specifically to make more noise. Like for example, if it was modern era, an air horn (let's you produce two noise tokens with the make noise action). Make items that let you control where you make the noise as well, like throwing something at a range of 1-2 and making the noise in the target zone, as opposed to your own zone. Also some kind of timed noise maker, like something with a fuse that waits a turn before it explodes and makes noise, etc. I'll keep thinking about this, I think it could be interesting.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jack Reda
United States
Herndon
Virginia
flag msg tools
designer
Guess the games in my uberbadge!
badge
My favorite game is Cosmic Encounter.
mbmbmbmbmb
I think it should be a bigger deal in that there's more negative consequences... things like activating zombies (or moving Runners an extra space if a certain noise threshold is met). Incentivize the players to keep quiet, at least in some situations. This would also encourage players to split up and make noise elsewhere, if you know that there's some serious consequences about to happen because a group has been too noisy.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Eduardo Ortiz
United States
Texas
flag msg tools
The Warp wrote:
I think it should be a bigger deal in that there's more negative consequences... things like activating zombies (or moving Runners an extra space if a certain noise threshold is met). Incentivize the players to keep quiet, at least in some situations. This would also encourage players to split up and make noise elsewhere, if you know that there's some serious consequences about to happen because a group has been too noisy.


Ahh i like this as well, you should keep exploring the idea.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jack Reda
United States
Herndon
Virginia
flag msg tools
designer
Guess the games in my uberbadge!
badge
My favorite game is Cosmic Encounter.
mbmbmbmbmb
I've been so busy painting the throng of minis that I've only played it once so far... I wanna get in a few more before I start to tweak things. I played the original Zombicide many times, and house ruled a lot of it (which I was glad to see actually made its way into some of the changes to Z:BP). However, noise was the once thing I haven't really messed around with yet.

My instinct is to tie in to the spawn cards possibly, so that consequences will change, and escalate as the threat level increases from blue up to red.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Eduardo Ortiz
United States
Texas
flag msg tools
The Warp wrote:
I've been so busy painting the throng of minis that I've only played it once so far... I wanna get in a few more before I start to tweak things. I played the original Zombicide many times, and house ruled a lot of it (which I was glad to see actually made its way into some of the changes to Z:BP). However, noise was the once thing I haven't really messed around with yet.

My instinct is to tie in to the spawn cards possibly, so that consequences will change, and escalate as the threat level increases from blue up to red.


Cool man, excited to see what you come up with.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Daniel Donnici
Brazil
flag msg tools
Hey, do you have the template to make items? And Necros maybe?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Eduardo Ortiz
United States
Texas
flag msg tools
Donnici wrote:
Hey, do you have the template to make items? And Necros maybe?


I made my own template by putting pieces together from different cards posted here. Let me clean it up and i'll upload it.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Brian C
United States
Lansing
Michigan
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Just gonna say it, this should've been in the game already.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Eduardo Ortiz
United States
Texas
flag msg tools
Replaced the original card images with the ones I'm currently using in game. I think those ones are the ones that work the best, in my opinion.

But here is the old Lockpick if anyone is interested in it.



 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
1 , 2  Next »   | 
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.