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The Walking Dead: No Sanctuary» Forums » General

Subject: Stretch Goal Announcement and Retail Release rss

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Kevin Outlaw
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EDIT: I don't want to delete this original post, but it is very important to note recent changes to the campaign. Cryptozoic have restructured all of the pledge tiers and made it obvious which characters are coming in the base game. They added new stretch goal characters as Kickstarter exclusives, while the non-exclusive characters have been automatically added to the pledge level. Please check out the campaign page for more details, and pay attention to the graphic on the main page.


I personally don't believe this has been made clear enough on the campaign page, and Crypto's announcement in the comments thread will get buried in an hour or so, so I thought I would post this here:

===
Comment from Cryptozoic:
Anything not marked at Kickstarter Exclusive will be in the retail game when unlocked.
The social goals are just for our kickstarter backers because you helped us unlock them!
===


To clarify, anything marked Kickstarter Exclusive is exactly that. Anything else unlocked through stretches is going into the retail box.

This is not a comment on the rights and wrongs of doing this, I just wanted to clarify it because it was important to me, and I thought it might be important to other people as well.

I am sure Crypto will clarify the point officially in an update at some point as well.
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I read that and I also agree it is very important when evaluating the pledge.
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I think social goals are correct but Kickstarter Exclusive will not be in the retail game. There seems to be some stretches that are exclusive and some that are not. Dale isn't exclusive so I imagine him to be in the retail game along with if we unlock Shane, T-dog, and Merle. Crawlers, Enemy pack, Female walkers, and the special dice looks to me are not going to be in the retail box.
 
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blacklistgames wrote:
I think social goals are correct but Kickstarter Exclusive will not be in the retail game. There seems to be some stretches that are exclusive and some that are not. Dale isn't exclusive so I imagine him to be in the retail game along with if we unlock Shane, T-dog, and Merle. Crawlers, Enemy pack, Female walkers, and the special dice looks to me are not going to be in the retail box.


Think you read my post incorrectly.

Like I put in my post, all social goals (which are marked as Kickstarter exclusive) are not going into the retail box, and neither will anything else marked exclusive. All other stretch goals, including dale, merle, Shane, and t-dog will go into the retail box. I have a sneaky feeling all those characters will go into the box even if they don't unlock, but that is just a guess on my part (the fact they already had the miniature for Dale on display at Comic Con this weekend makes it obvious his character was designed and sculpted and ready to roll right out of the gate, and with the other three characters also appearing on the cover of the box, I would be very surprised if they are not in the box, whatever happens in the campaign).

Either way, knowing that the only stretches I was interested in were going into the retail box was enough for me to decide to cancel my pledge, as there was not enough added value for me personally.
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RedMonkeyBoy wrote:
blacklistgames wrote:
I think social goals are correct but Kickstarter Exclusive will not be in the retail game. There seems to be some stretches that are exclusive and some that are not. Dale isn't exclusive so I imagine him to be in the retail game along with if we unlock Shane, T-dog, and Merle. Crawlers, Enemy pack, Female walkers, and the special dice looks to me are not going to be in the retail box.


Think you read my post incorrectly.

Like I put in my post, all social goals (which are marked as Kickstarter exclusive) are not going into the retail box, and neither will anything else marked exclusive. All other stretch goals, including dale, merle, Shane, and t-dog will go into the retail box. I have a sneaky feeling all those characters will go into the box even if they don't unlock, but that is just a guess on my part (the fact they already had the miniature for Dale on display at Comic Con this weekend makes it obvious his character was designed and sculpted and ready to roll right out of the gate, and with the other three characters also appearing on the cover of the box, I would be very surprised if they are not in the box, whatever happens in the campaign).

Either way, knowing that the only stretches I was interested in were going into the retail box was enough for me to decide to cancel my pledge, as there was not enough added value for me personally.


+1

Cancelled my EB today and will wait for a much cheaper retail release.
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Kevin Outlaw
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I will do my best Mystic Meg impression here:

If they do not get enough funding to unlock all of the characters listed in the stretch goals, I predict that at the end of the campaign they will unlock up to Merle as a "thank you" to backers (but really because they always intended to put those characters in the retail box).

I noticed they still haven't made it clear in the front page graphic that Dale is actually going into the retail box (and they never clarified it in the update either). I'm actually a bit disappointed in them.
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Greg
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Sounds like they are pretty busy with the SDCC, which is probably why.
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RedMonkeyBoy wrote:
I will do my best Mystic Meg impression here:

If they do not get enough funding to unlock all of the characters listed in the stretch goals, I predict that at the end of the campaign they will unlock up to Merle as a "thank you" to backers (but really because they always intended to put those characters in the retail box).

I noticed they still haven't made it clear in the front page graphic that Dale is actually going into the retail box (and they never clarified it in the update either). I'm actually a bit disappointed in them.

By not clarifying it, the stretch goals look more attractive to potential backers. Nothing makes a stretch goal less interesting that the words "added to the base game".
 
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RedMonkeyBoy wrote:
I noticed they still haven't made it clear in the front page graphic that Dale is actually going into the retail box (and they never clarified it in the update either). I'm actually a bit disappointed in them.


I was thinking of backing at $40 and using the Dale, Shane, T-Dog and Merle unlocks for KS backers as a justification for doing so but if some or all are going to be part of the retail box then yeah, there's no reason for someone like me (no interest in the miniatures) to participate. Unless I'm missing something...
 
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Phantom Load wrote:
RedMonkeyBoy wrote:
I noticed they still haven't made it clear in the front page graphic that Dale is actually going into the retail box (and they never clarified it in the update either). I'm actually a bit disappointed in them.


I was thinking of backing at $40 and using the Dale, Shane, T-Dog and Merle unlocks for KS backers as a justification for doing so but if some or all are going to be part of the retail box then yeah, there's no reason for someone like me (no interest in the miniatures) to participate. Unless I'm missing something...


No, I don't think you are missing anything.

If you back at $40, you get the game without miniatures. And if they unlock Dale, Shane, T-Dog, and Merle, you would get the rules and cardboard standees for those characters as well.

If you wait until retail, you can buy the game without miniatures at retail price, which will included Dale, Shane, T-Dog, and Merle (if they unlock, or if they add them to the base game at the end of the campaign).

The $40 pledge doesn't get you anything that isn't in the retail box except for the exclusive dice (if they unlock).

Note, as it stands at the moment, they aren't making the expansions with standees, so if you wanted to expand your game in the future, you would need to mix miniatures with standees.
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Jeff K
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This is such a strange campaign. As of now, they only have 7 backers wanting standees. I doubt there will be very many when the campaign ends. Did they not consider this? It is going to cost them SO much money in printing setups to print a handful of cardboard sheets. They are losing on that for sure, it makes no sense.

So, they are paying all that money for sculpts and molds, then have to pay additional fees for art and printing for the cardboard. It's not insignificant.

I wouldn't be surprised if they ended up quietly "upgrading" the low cost backers to minis to save themselves some cash. I'm half tempted to throw in for one, just because this seems likely, given their behavior.

I do think the game looks very interesting, though. Could be really great, if the leader mechanic works in practice the way they think.
 
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Xookliba wrote:
This is such a strange campaign. As of now, they only have 7 backers wanting standees. I doubt there will be very many when the campaign ends. Did they not consider this? It is going to cost them SO much money in printing setups to print a handful of cardboard sheets. They are losing on that for sure, it makes no sense.


That's why I said in another thread it feels like the $40 tier is the mass-market box you'll see in Target or some other retail store and where they're hoping the "long tail" sales come in after the game is officially released.

The $125 tier is targeted to the KS backers that love miniatures and seemingly throw cash at any project where the $/figure ratio feels "worth it" (whatever that means).

EDIT: From what I've seen I think the game looks really cool. The models they've featured on the KS page (the character models) also look great. But I'm just not feeling this as a miniatures game. Maybe I'm burned out on KS projects with miniatures but the idea of opening up a box and just handing out cards and chits sounds wonderful. Like...$40 wonderful.
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If had to guess, based on how much Cryptozoic appears to have invested in this game already, and based on their lack of concern for how badly the KS is going in general, and based on that $40 pledge, and based on the fact that they encourage dropping to $1 and getting the exclusives only....

...I would guess that this KS is nothing more than a way to get some upfront cash and free advertisement and fans for a game they already fully plan to take to Retail anyhow in both the standee and mini versions.

That's why they won't care about the low $40 pledge amount.
 
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Phantom Load wrote:
That's why I said in another thread it feels like the $40 tier is the mass-market box you'll see in Target or some other retail store and where they're hoping the "long tail" sales come in after the game is officially released.


Yep. People in this category don't even know what KS is but will buy the $40 game at a Big Box. They also won't buy the expansions (not that Big Box stores know how to stock expansions), either. KickTraq sez the project's going to fund at 1/2 a million, so that's roughly one free expansion's worth of SG's right there. "Renders are not miniatures," but Crypto has miniatures experience. I've heard criticisms of their GB games but haven't seen the miniatures myself, so do your research.
 
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Sam and Max wrote:
KickTraq sez the project's going to fund at 1/2 a million, so that's roughly one free expansion's worth of SG's right there.


Kicktraq's not really saying that. It says the campaign is trending at $0.5 mill, but the trending value is not a projection. The projection is much less than that (low end of $336K).

Also, a funding goal of $0.5 mill is not going to equal one free expansion's worth of stretch goals for this project. The whole point of my original post was to explain to people that all the stuff that isn't marked as a KS exclusive is going into the retail box anyway.

They have revealed stretch goals up to $375K, and of all of them, only 8 dice and 5 zombie miniatures are actually "added value" for backers.*


* Excluding social stretch goals, which are exclusive but have nothing to do with the funding level.
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Phate999 wrote:
Sounds like they are pretty busy with the SDCC, which is probably why.


Since I posted this, they have updated elements of the graphic, but they have purposefully not updated the part that makes it clear that Dale is actually going to be in the retail box. Dale is even still listed under the heading "Extras."

Honestly, I am finding this Kickstarter fascinating (warning tangent ahead)...

I find it interesting that there are a lot of comments about the value not being great, and yet a lot of the comments on the Kickstarter page consist of people begging Crypto to charge more.

I have seen requests to make the three stretch goal characters paid add-ons, requests to remove all of the exclusive stretch goals and to make them paid add-ons (bearing in mind the exclusives are the only things that are "added value" for backers, as other stretch goals are going into the retail box anyway), and I have seen people suggesting adding exclusive characters to the two expansions to force people to buy them.

I find it utterly bizarre.

Meanwhile, Crypto continue to make very odd mistakes: In their last update they plain forgot to list the fact it includes five prisoner miniatures, thereby underselling their own product.
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RedMonkeyBoy wrote:
I find it utterly bizarre.


For a project that started 11 days ago, it seems to have stalled after reaching funding levels.

I'm now beginning to think they expected CMON levels of funding based on the inclusion of miniatures and are now wondering what to do as that's seemingly not happening.

To be clear, I don't understand how or why CMON games make so much money during a KS project either.
 
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Yes, it has stalled! It seems like they aren't getting any traction at all. By opening a bunch of new early bird pledge levels for SDCC they shot themselves in the foot. It hasn't attracted a lot of new backers but rather the existing backers just changed their non-EB pledge level to fill up those slots, losing funding.

Cryptozoic, based on their Ghostbusters campaigns, probably thought they'd have the same response in funding.

CMON has developed a pretty big following and their hype wagon and crossovers are a force to be reckon with. Their games are always on the hotness. Whereas with Cryptozoic, I've seen little to no activity for TWD:NS on BGG. I mean they did several social media stretch goals on the KS and BBG wasn't one of them. Really? Their target audience should be hobby board gamers if they want to sell the tiers with minis. Look at the hotness now. Who is there also trying to raise funds? Ryan Laukat. He is just killing it. Not exactly an apples to orange comparison but he's doing something right.
 
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Phantom Load wrote:
RedMonkeyBoy wrote:
I find it utterly bizarre.


For a project that started 11 days ago, it seems to have stalled after reaching funding levels.

I'm now beginning to think they expected CMON levels of funding based on the inclusion of miniatures and are now wondering what to do as that's seemingly not happening.

To be clear, I don't understand how or why CMON games make so much money during a KS project either.


I have absolutely no idea how CMON gets so much money. I really dislike their games, and if I want to buy miniatures, I choose something like Games Workshop for the higher quality. However, for people who want a big bucket o' miniatures, I guess it makes sense because CMON certainly aren't lacking in plastic content.

However, for the Walking Dead campaign I think there are a lot of reasons why it hasn't done better, many of which I listed elsewhere, so won't here.

What I actually find bizarre is how desperate some backers are for Crypto to redesign the campaign to make it more expensive and less value.
 
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RedMonkeyBoy wrote:
What I actually find bizarre is how desperate some backers are for Crypto to redesign the campaign to make it more expensive and less value.


Is Kickstarter speculation still a thing? Are people still making profits selling off pledges? Maybe that's what's happening if they're asking for things to be added that are exclusives or are known to draw sales after the KS is delivered.

Overall I'm really scratching my head on this one.
 
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Phantom Load wrote:
RedMonkeyBoy wrote:
What I actually find bizarre is how desperate some backers are for Crypto to redesign the campaign to make it more expensive and less value.


Is Kickstarter speculation still a thing? Are people still making profits selling off pledges? Maybe that's what's happening if they're asking for things to be added that are exclusives or are known to draw sales after the KS is delivered.

Overall I'm really scratching my head on this one.


It's definitely a thing, which is one of the reasons why people in normal campaigns ask for exclusive content. However, people normally want those exclusive to come as "free" stretch goals, not something you buy as an add-on. At the very least, they feel happy to buy exclusive add-ons if they are also getting a ton of extras from stretch goals.

However, in this campaign, people are specifically asking for Crypto to REMOVE stretch goals, and REPLACE them with paid add-ons, and they are even requesting that for the stretch goals that Crypto have specifically said are going to go into the retail box.

 
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As far as I know they will not add locked character SG's to the game unless we unlock them. That's why I wanted to get rid the of 5 female walkers and custom dice. I could care less for those, but some people might want to get them as an add-on.
 
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Phate999 wrote:
As far as I know they will not add locked character SG's to the game unless we unlock them. That's why I wanted to get rid the of 5 female walkers and custom dice. I could care less for those, but some people might want to get them as an add-on.


I would be surprised if they don't go into the box.

If they don't unlock I suspect Crypto will gift them into the pledge, like they did with Dale.

Honestly, those character stretches should be 10K apart (as that is the figure they always throw around for the cost of the molds). They would have blown through another one by now, and people would be getting more excited.

It was pretty shocking to see backers asking Crypto to make those characters an add-on.

(By the way, for anyone still backing, someone... anyone... point out to Crypto they have two characters wearing the same hat (Rick and Carl). It's really bugging me!)
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Had to share this one.
 
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