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Subject: Trump sends pathetic signals to Putin rss

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David Dearlove
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So you have to meet Trump's standards before NATO will defend you?
Someone should remind him that the only country to invoke this was the USA and this got us into the pointless war in Afghanistan.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/21/us/politics/donald-trump-i...
 
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Boaty McBoatface
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So having poked the bear awake the USA may well now stand behind the kids in the hope they are not mauled.

Christ this really is scary, not for us but for those nations the USA has encouraged and Donny now wants to make pay for US foreign policy. Maybe it is time those nations sought a new ally, like China.
 
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Sam I am
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slatersteven wrote:
So having poked the bear awake the USA may well now stand behind the kids in the hope they are not mauled.

Christ this really is scary, not for us but for those nations the USA has encouraged and Donny now wants to make pay for US foreign policy. Maybe it is time those nations sought a new ally, like China.


Trump wont care. He only cares about winners.
 
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Boaty McBoatface
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rcbevco wrote:
slatersteven wrote:
So having poked the bear awake the USA may well now stand behind the kids in the hope they are not mauled.

Christ this really is scary, not for us but for those nations the USA has encouraged and Donny now wants to make pay for US foreign policy. Maybe it is time those nations sought a new ally, like China.


Trump wont care. He only cares about winners.
The sad thing is I think your are right. He will see losing these nations (and others) as allies as a victory for America.

Let us hope for Americans greatness he does not get in.
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Jeff Staff
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DavidDearlove wrote:
So you have to meet Trump's standards before NATO will defend you?
Someone should remind him that the only country to invoke this was the USA and this got us into the pointless war in Afghanistan.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/21/us/politics/donald-trump-i...

Hey you Europeans need to step it up. Tanks and shit are 'spensive!
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Boaty McBoatface
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Diabolik771 wrote:
DavidDearlove wrote:
So you have to meet Trump's standards before NATO will defend you?
Someone should remind him that the only country to invoke this was the USA and this got us into the pointless war in Afghanistan.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/21/us/politics/donald-trump-i...

Hey you Europeans need to step it up. Tanks and shit are 'spensive!
I think you will find that many of us "Europeans" want fuck all to do with it.

This is the USA wanting to expand NATO.
 
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Sam I am
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Diabolik771 wrote:
DavidDearlove wrote:
So you have to meet Trump's standards before NATO will defend you?
Someone should remind him that the only country to invoke this was the USA and this got us into the pointless war in Afghanistan.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/21/us/politics/donald-trump-i...

Hey you Europeans need to step it up. Tanks and shit are 'spensive!

I agree for once. Lets give them a couple of air craft carriers gratis and let them staff and maintain them.
 
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Why shouldn't countries that will beg for help have to fulfill their obligations?

We have an obligation to defend them. They have an obligation to do certain things, so if they DONT, are they not holding up their end of the treaty?

And since when are the rules of the treaty, TRUMPS standards?
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Boaty McBoatface
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TheDashi wrote:
Why shouldn't countries that will beg for help have to fulfill their obligations?

We have an obligation to defend them. They have an obligation to do certain things, so if they DONT, are they not holding up their end of the treaty?

And since when are the rules of the treaty, TRUMPS standards?
Obligations to do what?

What has Donny said they have to do?

Also he said "obligations to us", not "to NATO", they have made no agreements with the USA but with NATO.
 
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Michael Pustilnik
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Trumps public statements about not honoring US obligations to NATO demonstrate how unfit he is for the presidency. Because of this, I expect him to lose badly in November.
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Oldies but Goodies ... Avalon Hill and
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Posted for reference.

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Les Marshall
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slatersteven wrote:
So having poked the bear awake the USA may well now stand behind the kids in the hope they are not mauled.

Christ this really is scary, not for us but for those nations the USA has encouraged and Donny now wants to make pay for US foreign policy. Maybe it is time those nations sought a new ally, like China.


Trump may well realign the entire world order...away from the US.
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jeremy cobert
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SPIGuy wrote:
Posted for reference.


And for people who dont understand % of gdp vs actual income. Do you have numbers on total money spent by nation ?

Rulesjd wrote:
Trump may well realign the entire world order...away from the US.


Again, you nutters keep moving me closer to Trump. Less war for American troops is now a bad thing ?
 
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Chris
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SPIGuy wrote:

Posted for reference.



/thread
 
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MikePustilnik wrote:
Trumps public statements about not honoring US obligations to NATO demonstrate how unfit he is for the presidency. Because of this, I expect him to lose badly in November.

Trump has a valid argument that if NATO members refuse to fulfill their treaty obligations then we aren't obligated to defend them. It's an argument I grudgingly disagree with because there are bigger things at stake than whether European members are spending enough on defense, but it certainly is frustrating to see NATO states which border friggin' Russia and begged for NATO membership not so long ago unable or unwilling to hit the NATO defense spending target.

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Sean Conroy
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I was going to rant but, I'll just ask a question.

A NATO ally [Turkey] goes rogue and kills Russian soldiers. Russia says, enough is enough and declares war. Will you all fully support US troops going off to fight in this war?

If so, you all are more murderous than you let on.

Washington warned us about not getting entangled in binding alliances and THIS is exactly why. Also, see how well alliances worked out for Europe 1914-1918.

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Pontifex Maximus
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jeremycobert wrote:
SPIGuy wrote:
Posted for reference.


And for people who dont understand % of gdp vs actual income. Do you have numbers on total money spent by nation ?

Rulesjd wrote:
Trump may well realign the entire world order...away from the US.


Again, you nutters keep moving me closer to Trump. Less war for American troops is now a bad thing ?


Actually more war for US troops since we will be bereft of any allies to turn to. Since logic seems not to be your strong suit you seem to be a natural for The Donald. Don't blame the rest of us for that
 
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jeremy cobert
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Kumitedad wrote:
Actually more war for US troops since we will be bereft of any allies to turn to. Since logic seems not to be your strong suit you seem to be a natural for The Donald. Don't blame the rest of us for that


No, I think Trump is saying that we wont be entangled with these minor nations in NATO that cant get their shit together.

That means less troops on the ground and perhaps Europe taking a larger role.

Thats a good thing, unless you're a pro war Hillary supporter.
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Brian M
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Am I the only one that gets a major "protection racket" vibe from Trump's comments?
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J.D. Hall
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slatersteven wrote:
So having poked the bear awake the USA may well now stand behind the kids in the hope they are not mauled.

So it's better for the US to stand in front and get mauled by the bear while the kids stand behind us and play Pokémon GO?

Yes, it's not that simple. Yes, the US has been at times overbearing with the NATO allies. And yes...Luxemburg has an ARMY? WTF?????

Trump's comments were ridiculous. But I share his frustration that the US spends so much of its money defending not only itself but other countries, most of which have the GDP to support their own defense. It's a tricky question.

And Steven? Go right ahead and trust China. The People's Republic is quite the paradise on Earth.
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Les Marshall
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jeremycobert wrote:
SPIGuy wrote:
Posted for reference.


And for people who dont understand % of gdp vs actual income. Do you have numbers on total money spent by nation ?

Rulesjd wrote:
Trump may well realign the entire world order...away from the US.


Again, you nutters keep moving me closer to Trump. Less war for American troops is now a bad thing ?


I know it's hard for you to grasp but, I'll say again you have to understand nuance, geo politics and long term goals.

It's beyond goofy that you interpret anything in my post that suggests war is somehow good for the troops. However, adopting an isolationist stance at this time, or any time is patently absurd. America is the only superpower on the planet and thus extremely well situated to drive political outcomes. If we retreat from NATO, and show a disinclination to demonstrate interest in the smaller countries with whom we have partnered we will see a far more muscular set of maneuvers from Russia, China and Iran. Many more countries will likely pursuer nuclear ambitions to "protect" themselves from larger neighbors. The oceans and seas of the world will become less secure for international shipping which the lifeblood of our global economy.

If we retreat, there will be a power vacuum and the dream of Hugo Chavez to replace the dollar as the standard for global currency will be one step closer. Good luck keeping your stock market and real estate values health if that happens.
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Sam I am
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The gist of most people who want them to "step up" is that the US cannot afford to borrow money to cover their national defense costs much longer. If they aren't willing to pay then why should we. If they want our help in time of need they need to show some effort.

It's a scary thought to find myself in pseudo-agreement with the Great Orange One... kind of.
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Michael Pustilnik
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TracerBullet wrote:
I was going to rant but, I'll just ask a question.

A NATO ally [Turkey] goes rogue and kills Russian soldiers. Russia says, enough is enough and declares war. Will you all fully support US troops going off to fight in this war?

If so, you all are more murderous than you let on.

Washington warned us about not getting entangled in binding alliances and THIS is exactly why. Also, see how well alliances worked out for Europe 1914-1918.



Tragically, incidents like the one you describe do happen. It is certainly possible that Turkey might shoot down another Russian plane that strayed into its airspace. Or Russia might shoot down a Turkish plane that flew too close to one of their planes. A minor incident like that is not justification for a war.

If Russia used a minor incident as an excuse to start a major war against Turkey, then yes, all of NATO would be obligated to come to the aid of Turkey. Putin knows this. So Putin would be a fool to start that war.
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Drew
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Quote:
Subject: Trump sends pathetic signals to Putin


Ooo! Was it about how he's gonna have "more flexibility" after the election?

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rcbevco wrote:
The gist of most people who want them to "step up" is that the US cannot afford to borrow money to cover their national defense costs much longer. If they aren't willing to pay then why should we. If they want our help in time of need they need to show some effort.

It's a scary thought to find myself in pseudo-agreement with the Great Orange One... kind of.


I'm in the same boat. We are selling our children's futures to defend countries that won't do the same. (Of course I don't have kids so I care a whole lot less about that. But it's a broken policy.)

At the end of the day, I prefer some of Trump's policies to Hillary's, but it's pretty irrelevant -- they're both pretty awful outcomes for the nation.

The protectionist racket -- pay up or we won't protect you from us -- is, well... it is what it is.
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