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Cthulhu Wars» Forums » Rules

Subject: A couple of Black Goat questions... rss

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Danny Lamprey
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The Black Goat. So far, this has been the most unsuccessful faction in terms of winning my groups play with. Usually Windwalker, Hastur and Crawling Chaos take it.

Last night I had my first chance to play as the Black Goat. It's not impossible to win with it, I can see that... It is very different with some specific strategies... In the end I lost ...second to last place and Windwalker cruised by all of us.

So... I just want to make sure I was understanding some things correctly.

Fertility Cult: I assumed that if I wanted to summon multiple units, I had to pay for them. E.g. 4 Fungi would cost me 8 power but I could summon them all (assuming I don't have the thousand young spell book) is this right?

It also says "when you summon monsters" so does this mean I can't throw 5 cultists out there at once? Meaning are cultists not considered monsters?

Thousand Young Spell Book: regardless of obtaining this spell book, cultists always cost 1 and Ghouls always cost 1. Their cost is not reduced by this spell book. So it is not free to summon ghouls yes?

Thanks for any help!
 
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Tiago Gouveia
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Digmecolder wrote:
The Black Goat. So far, this has been the most unsuccessful faction in terms of winning my groups play with. Usually Windwalker, Hastur and Crawling Chaos take it.

Last night I had my first chance to play as the Black Goat. It's not impossible to win with it, I can see that... It is very different with some specific strategies... In the end I lost ...second to last place and Windwalker cruised by all of us.

So... I just want to make sure I was understanding some things correctly.

Fertility Cult: I assumed that if I wanted to summon multiple units, I had to pay for them. E.g. 4 Fungi would cost me 8 power but I could summon them all (assuming I don't have the thousand young spell book) is this right?


correct

Quote:
It also says "when you summon monsters" so does this mean I can't throw 5 cultists out there at once? Meaning are cultists not considered monsters?


correct

Quote:
Thousand Young Spell Book: regardless of obtaining this spell book, cultists always cost 1 and Ghouls always cost 1. Their cost is not reduced by this spell book. So it is not free to summon ghouls yes?

Thanks for any help!


incorrect, unless there is some recent update that I dont know...
ghouls cost is reduced to zero with 1k young. Cultists still cost 1 power each piece regardless the spellbook.

To win with BG you must be subtle, agile and must seize any good chance of stealing a good gate.
Overuse Avatar in early game. Get blood sacrifice early and use it in all doow phase.
Keep Shub Nigurath alive.
Settle a good power base, be the last player with power and safe steal gates with avatar. Always have a cultist in your pool for this purpose (your spellbook slot that requires sacrifice 2 cultists, awaken Shub and blood sacrifice have good sinergy here).
Overuse necrophagy to get your spellbooks and a easy gate.
Keep in mind that there is no script rule to follow and win, those are general guides and backbone strategy. I have won many times with BG, always taking a surprise win by revealing ES.

BG is awsome.
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Danny Lamprey
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Thanks for the reply!

That all sounds good. I always liked the Black Goat. Nobody wants to select her anymore because of the losing streak people have had so I finally got to select it. I liked the faction a lot just need more time with it to work out how it works beneficially.
 
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David Andersson
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Black Goat wins by being relentless.

Your enemies will never leave cultists alone once they see you using Avatar to pop them off their gates (especially useful for CC) so they'll always spend more power to move in groups.

Any time combat happens in an area with a gate use Necrophagy to make sure the gate is empty, then recruit your own cultist there.

And you should almost always have cultists in your pool. Make sure that you use Blood Sacrifice to gain Elder Signs and free up cultists.

With Red Sign you can potentially end a turn with nine gates. I've never seen it happen, but six is not THAT uncommon. You can have a potentially huge scoring turn.

And when your enemies come to take the gates back you can resummon monsters for cheap or run away with Avatar or Necrophagy.

Black Goat is great at drastic tempo shifts. If you want to drag your feet and save power you can get your "sacrifice 2 cultists" spellbook or summon free ghouls one at a time. If you need to suddenly regain lost forces you have Thousand Young and Fertility Cult.

Black Goat is the best faction in the game. whistle
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Kolby Reddish
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The thing about Black Goat is that she is the best at maintaining a lead. Avatar and Ghroth in particular aren't that effective from behind, but they're extremely effective at maintaining a lead. Try to keep this in mind and build up an early power base.
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Bruno Freitas
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In my gaming group, Yellow Sign and Crawling Chaos run rampant. Great Cthulhu and Black Goat were the least chosen.

I always liked BG, so I tried many times to play with it.

Today, BG is one of the most sucsesful factions.

As stated before me, Avatar is great for stealing gates. In my games I try to do so only after the others are without power (remember to remove shubby to a safe area if others will play before you, otherwise she may get killed). I always start turn 1 summoning shubby and taking blood sacrifice (1 elder sign each turn is great and also the cheapest way to get them).

Tha main problem with taking the lead are reprisals, specially while playing with 2 other players (they will certanly gang on you, so try to disperse to force them scatter their forces too.
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Danny Lamprey
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Yea, Crawling Chaos, Hastur and Windwalker really seem to decimate sometimes. Most likely because we don't try to thwart them as much as we should. The BG and the Sleeper end up being the most unsuccessful factions in my groups.

I am determined to learn the BG enough to trump everyone with it lol Sleeper, I like him but, so far it is not a faction that has sparked my interest enough to play.
 
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Lincoln Petersen
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Digmecolder wrote:
Yea, Crawling Chaos, Hastur and Windwalker really seem to decimate sometimes. Most likely because we don't try to thwart them as much as we should. The BG and the Sleeper end up being the most unsuccessful factions in my groups.

I am determined to learn the BG enough to trump everyone with it lol Sleeper, I like him but, so far it is not a faction that has sparked you interest enough to play.


The problem with those two factions is that they're all about managing resources. Way more so than the other factions.

With Black Goat you need to manage cultists and monsters. Cultists because when you Avatar or nechrophagy you need one in your pool so that you can recruit them on the empty gate. Monsters because if you're not getting 1k young first then they are quite expensive.

Really the whole faction though is based upon keeping Shub alive. She is more important to the faction than Nyarly is to Crawling Chaos.

For Sleeper he is all about power management. For his spellbooks alone you need to spend at least 22 power. Spending 9 power, ritualing, and summoning Tsathoggua. Not even counting the roll 6 combat dice requirement. Lethargy (Tsathoggua's ability) does not give you power to use, it just lets you be more effective with that power. You still need a massive power base to be able to effectively utilize Sleeper. A lot of his abilities let you lessen the cost of things, but they do not earn you more power.

Lastly I would view "Death from Below" as a nice bonus not focus your faction on it. If you think that hey all I need to do is get a couple wizards and then a few serpent men and then I only get Formless spawn! You are wrong. Think about the cost to get your first Formless spawn for free. Two Wizards the first turn. You then get a free serpent man you still need to summon two more serpent men to get that free Formless. The total cost is you don't get a formless until turn 3 and that formless actually cost you 6 power to get.
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Sandy Petersen
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Black Goat has a lot of things going for her. Her biggest problem is how often people misplay her faction. The most common mistakes I see (just saw it last Friday) are:

1) spread out units too much early for spellbooks, then get cultists picked off by baddies.

2) underestimate the value of her spellbooks. I.e., don't get Necrophagy, don't use Blood Sacrifice till the last turn of the game, never summon Dark Young because they're "too expensive" ...

3) wait too long to get out Shub-Niggurath.

I think one reason she's perceived as a "loser" is because she gets misplayed so often. When she is played right, she can be pretty terrifying. Here is an essay I wrote about how to play her:

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1816687860/cthulhu-wars...

Of course this analysis is far from the final word on the subject. Also note we recently made a small balance adjustments to Ghroth which makes it far more useful. I have always loved playing Black Goat and one of her hidden advantages is that other players tend to underestimate her.

Sleeper's problem is that he is far more different from the other factions than he seems at first. It's really easy for a Sleeper player to just silo himself in, and sit around and then gripe because he lost after not doing much. The fact is, he has no good way to earn Elder Signs besides Rituals. This means he needs to capture Gates in a big way. He is inexpensive to play, but he also has major expenditures he has to make, which means he needs to use his Power wisely. Here is an essay I wrote about him:

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1816687860/cthulhu-wars...
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Danny Lamprey
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Oh i never thought of any faction as a "loser" per se but more so just not enough of time or understanding with that particular faction.

Someone will play as the Black Goat, not do very well but witness someone playing with say CC or WW with ease and think, oh, that's what I need to be next time and simply moves on from BG. Which to me, is too bad because I know there is power in all of these factions.

So having my first time with Shub was very interesting and I want to just get my head around it and get in there and give these chumps a run for their money... To date my fave is Hastur but, I want to branch out and get into these factions (Sleeper, BG,) that people are shying away from due to just not enough time with them. Windwalker is also pretty stellar... I must say.
 
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Joey Larsen
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We had another black goat win on Saturday. He benefited greatly from Opener taking an early lead. While we all tried to stop Opener, he slipped 6 gates out of his hat and took us to town.
 
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Kyle Strahm
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Anyone have a strategy for playing BG against Opener of the Way? Usually Shub isn't ready to start jumping around with Avatar until the third round. By then, Opener usually has a nasty army and, in my experience, will happily use Dread Curse on Shub anywhere she goes alone.
 
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Marko Parviainen
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I have two wins under my belt; one from Yellow sign and one from Black goat. Not sure how many games I have played, though. five or six maybe. I don't get to play CW too often.

I usually play whatever faction is left after everybody picks what they want to play, so I get to play a wide variety of factions and don't have a regular faction as a favourite...

But yes, even I can win with Black goat, so it's doable.
 
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Greg Robertson
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Black Goat is all about timing. You have to space out your spell book acquisitions so you don't burn up all your power through movement actions. I see new players doing this constantly!

One of my largest issues is people never taking full advantage of their Dark Young units. "The Red Sign" is one of the best spell books in the whole game! And it guarantees you +1 power for each Dark Young in play during the Gather Power phase. That is on top of the +1 power for each Acolyte Cultist you have in play! These guys can be used to battle, steal gates, capture cultists, and occupy your newly acquired gate areas. Why wouldn't you want to have them in play???

Then we have the "Necrophagy" spell book. Enemy players hate this spell book with a passion. Why? Because it is so versatile! It can be used to fulfill the "Be in X areas" and "Have a friendly unit in an area with each enemy faction" spell book requirements. Not to mention it can be used to split up enemy armies, drive enemies out of areas you want to conquer, and set the stage for a grand entrance by Shub-Niggurath herself!

I love the Black Goat faction. And while I do not play it with the extreme precision that say, AStarks does, I can still make people suffer tremendously for attempting to purge me from the map!

Cthulhu Wars! Game responsibly.
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