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Subject: Games that don't end after a player wins rss

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Jean Laurant
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Do you know any games (designed in 20-21st century) that don't end when the winner is determined? (and what's your opinion on them?)

The only game of this type I can think of now is Hare & Tortoise.
I think it's pretty pointless to play after a player wins and I remember, when playing Hare & Tortoise, I wanted to just celebrate the winner and move on to the next game.

EDIT:
Thanks for the comments.
I'd like to make it a bit clearer about the type of games I'm talking about, which are competitive games (that can be played with three or more players) where the rules require players to continue playing to determine the second place and so on after the winner is officially determined (for just a single game, not for a series of games like in a tournament).

The followings are not what I'm talking about.
・Games that continue playing for a while after the end game condition is fulfilled (e.g. Automobiles, Takenoko, etc).
 Triggering an end game condition and actually winning a game are, of course, different.
・Games where multiple players can win / become the "first" player (e.g. Escape from the Aliens in Outer Space, Two Rooms and a Boom, etc)
・The situation where you're pretty sure who's going to win but the winner is not actually determined.

So far, aside from Hare & Tortoise, Formula D and PitchCar, the only game suggested that fits the description is The Mystic Wood (the rules say "players can continue playing for second and third place if they like" and don't require it though).
I couldn't find the rules of Arrivée and Grand Prix.

As a result, I can say that the rule about continuing to play even after a player wins is pretty much underused and I don't expect to see it often in the future.
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Jimmy Smith
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Aren't a lot of racing games designed this way? Unless no one cares about 2nd, 3rd, 4th, etc..., you'd have to continue playing to determine the order of finish.
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Alexandre P.
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ffreiheit wrote:
Do you know any games (designed in 20-21st century) that don't end when the winner is determined?


I don't understand the concept: why do you keep playing if the winner is known and what makes you end the game ?
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John
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Hare & Tortoise is the game I though of too - like you I would usually just end it when someone won (though last time we played it out - it only took a couple of minutes and I think people were going to head home afterwards regardless).

I think The Mystic Wood might have playing for 2nd place too.

Many games are decided by who has the most points - at the end you could declare whoever had 2nd most points to be in 2nd place (though in many games I don't think that makes much sense). Maybe the playing for 2nd thing in race games is because some people like to know all the positions and in something like Hare & Tortoise being closest to the finish line when someone wins isn't a good indicator that you'd actually cross the finish line 2nd.
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Kuba W
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I wouldn't play for a second place ever, it's a waste of time.

One thing that does work in games is when a player fulfils the winning conditions, but the other payers still have one more move to try to make him/her lose it (like in Cyclades).
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Dave Lartigue
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ptyx wrote:
I wouldn't play for a second place ever, it's a waste of time.

One thing that does work in games is when a player fulfils the winning conditions, but the other payers still have one more move to try to make him/her lose it (like in Cyclades).


This is part of why I hate Cyclades and other games of this ilk. It just becomes piling on the current winner until everyone runs out of stuff to fight with and whoever happens to be standing at that moment wins.
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Jean Laurant
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jmsmith2434 wrote:
Aren't a lot of racing games designed this way? Unless no one cares about 2nd, 3rd, 4th, etc..., you'd have to continue playing to determine the order of finish.

Really?
I just checked several race games (Robo Rally, Formula D, Jamaica, Steampunk Rally, Thunder Alley, Snow Tails, Um Reifenbreite, Ave Caesar, Automobiles, Fearsome Floors) but only one of them (Formula D) fits the category.

ptyx wrote:
I wouldn't play for a second place ever, it's a waste of time.

One thing that does work in games is when a player fulfils the winning conditions, but the other payers still have one more move to try to make him/her lose it (like in Cyclades).

In that case, no one has won yet. So it's a very different situation.
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Jim Cote
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Somewhat related. Around the World in 80 Days is a race game with a twist. The first player to get to the finish line does not necessarily win. Each player spends time moving around, and that time is kept as a separate value from their location. You might reach the finish line 2nd or 3rd and still win.
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Antonie van der Tweel
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It also goes for Speed Circuit and Arrivee, and if I remember correctly, Ravensburger Grand Prix.
 
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Wayne Schulatz
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ffreiheit wrote:
Do you know any games (designed in 20-21st century) that don't end when the winner is determined? (and what's your opinion on them?)

The only game of this type I can think of now is Hare & Tortoise.
I think it's pretty pointless to play after a player wins and I remember, when playing Hare & Tortoise, I wanted to just celebrate the winner and move on to the next game.


Wait... a player doesn't win once first place is determined. Players don't win until their bets are revealed. If no one bet on the character that came in first place, no one has scored any points yet.
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John
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Wayne Schulatz wrote:
Wait... a player doesn't win once first place is determined. Players don't win until their bets are revealed. If no one bet on the character that came in first place, no one has scored any points yet.


You're thinking of Tales & Games: The Hare & the Tortoise aren't you? The OP was talking about the older Hare & Tortoise.
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Wayne Schulatz
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zabdiel wrote:
Wayne Schulatz wrote:
Wait... a player doesn't win once first place is determined. Players don't win until their bets are revealed. If no one bet on the character that came in first place, no one has scored any points yet.


You're thinking of Tales & Games: The Hare & the Tortoise aren't you? The OP was talking about the older Hare & Tortoise.


Oh! Yes I am. Thank you.

Disregard...
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Peter Collins
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ptyx wrote:
I wouldn't play for a second place ever, it's a waste of time.

One thing that does work in games is when a player fulfils the winning conditions, but the other payers still have one more move to try to make him/her lose it (like in Cyclades).


If you are playing a campaign game or in a tournament where points are awarded for finishing order, then second place is not a waste of time at all.
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Mark Watson
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Escape from the Aliens in Outer Space. Any human who escapes the station wins. Play usually continues until there's no humans left on-board (either because they've escaped or because they're lunch). The same would be true of other games where you have team and individual player win conditions (where they can be achieved separately) - Two Rooms and a Boom for example, where several roles have individual win conditions which don't affect the overall team win conditions).

It's also pretty common in games which have some form of campaign element (wargames, dungeon crawlers) to have scenarios played out to the end even after the victory conditions have been fulfilled since the end state will effect the next scenario of the campaign.
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Mark Jackson
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ffreiheit wrote:
jmsmith2434 wrote:
Aren't a lot of racing games designed this way? Unless no one cares about 2nd, 3rd, 4th, etc..., you'd have to continue playing to determine the order of finish.

Really?
I just checked several race games (Robo Rally, Formula D, Jamaica, Steampunk Rally, Thunder Alley, Snow Tails, Um Reifenbreite, Ave Caesar, Automobiles, Fearsome Floors) but only one of them (Formula D) fits the category.


Thunder Alley doesn't end immediately when someone finishes 1st (ie wins the race), because you can win the race and not necessarily win the game. it does end at the end of that round though if memory serves...
 
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Will

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It seems it dates back further than you specified, but Othello is played out until there are no legal moves, but if a player secures more than 32 pieces so they cannot be turned to the other color, then the winner is clear.
 
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Jorik
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ptyx wrote:
I wouldn't play for a second place ever, it's a waste of time.

One thing that does work in games is when a player fulfils the winning conditions, but the other payers still have one more move to try to make him/her lose it (like in Cyclades).

try Why First? with that attitude and you'll lose, bigtime laugh
worth checking out if you like simple racegames with a large amount of groupthink and take-that.
 
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Kevin Jonas

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Ah_Pook wrote:
ffreiheit wrote:
jmsmith2434 wrote:
Aren't a lot of racing games designed this way? Unless no one cares about 2nd, 3rd, 4th, etc..., you'd have to continue playing to determine the order of finish.

Really?
I just checked several race games (Robo Rally, Formula D, Jamaica, Steampunk Rally, Thunder Alley, Snow Tails, Um Reifenbreite, Ave Caesar, Automobiles, Fearsome Floors) but only one of them (Formula D) fits the category.


Thunder Alley doesn't end immediately when someone finishes 1st (ie wins the race), because you can win the race and not necessarily win the game. it does end at the end of that round though if memory serves...

Same with Automobiles. Everyone gets the same number of turns.

Formula D has the rules because it has campaign rules.

You may want to have everyone cross the lien if you are the type of person that would think "as long as I beat him I will be happy". Not everyone plays to win. Some people play to have fun.
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chris lake
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Not sure if this qualifies, but Livingstone sure is interesting. You might have an idea of the winner, but if they neglected to donate enough money to the royal house, then they may become beheaded.
 
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Keith B
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Let me throw out Takenoko.

The game ends when someone lays face-up the required number of completed scoring cards (it's different depending on the number of players). However, everyone else is allowed to play out of their hand any completed cards they may have been holding. So, the player that ended the game may not be the player who wins the game.

Not sure if this fits your bill, but it's the first that came to my mind.
 
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Doesn't basically any game where you're supposed to score victory points after the game end has the potential for this? For example, Yahtzee officially ends when the notepad is filled out, even if one player already has an insurmountable advantage two rounds before that.

Apart from that, even though it's an older game, Skat comes to mind. After you've got your 60/61 points (and your opponent(s) got to 30), you can still technically lose, but only if you misplay - and since that doesn't happen, any half-decent opponent would forfeit at this point. Does anybody know some newer trick-taking games that work similarly?
 
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Greg Strobel
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The rules for Celestia say that when a new journey starts if a player has fifty or more points reveal there cards and they are the winner. Our group takes one more journey to see if anyone can surpass that players total.
 
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Mark Jackson
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Gstrobe188 wrote:
The rules for Celestia say that when a new journey starts if a player has fifty or more points reveal there cards and they are the winner. Our group takes one more journey to see if anyone can surpass that players total.


lots of push your luck games have a similar rule where once a player hits the score limit or "wins" everyone else gets one more shot to see if they can pull past and steal the win. its one of my favorite things, because it almost never actually happens but its so sweet when it does. also its a good way to force people in the lead to push their luck even once theyve "won" to try to get a higher score that is untouchable.
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Jean Laurant
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sirpoonga wrote:
Ah_Pook wrote:
ffreiheit wrote:
jmsmith2434 wrote:
Aren't a lot of racing games designed this way? Unless no one cares about 2nd, 3rd, 4th, etc..., you'd have to continue playing to determine the order of finish.

Really?
I just checked several race games (Robo Rally, Formula D, Jamaica, Steampunk Rally, Thunder Alley, Snow Tails, Um Reifenbreite, Ave Caesar, Automobiles, Fearsome Floors) but only one of them (Formula D) fits the category.


Thunder Alley doesn't end immediately when someone finishes 1st (ie wins the race), because you can win the race and not necessarily win the game. it does end at the end of that round though if memory serves...

Same with Automobiles. Everyone gets the same number of turns.

I'd like to make it clear that triggering end game condition and actually winning are different.
In Automobiles, the winner is determined after everyone plays the same number of turns.
In Thunder Alley, a player with the highest points at the end of the game wins, which is different from a car winning the race thematically.
In Hare & Tortoise, players continue to play after the winner is determined.

sirpoonga wrote:
You may want to have everyone cross the lien if you are the type of person that would think "as long as I beat him I will be happy". Not everyone plays to win. Some people play to have fun.

Houseruling is perfectly fine, but I'm talking about games with rules that require players to play after the winner is determined.
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Jean Laurant
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Broadstorm wrote:
It seems it dates back further than you specified, but Othello is played out until there are no legal moves, but if a player secures more than 32 pieces so they cannot be turned to the other color, then the winner is clear.

Randombias wrote:
Doesn't basically any game where you're supposed to score victory points after the game end has the potential for this? For example, Yahtzee officially ends when the notepad is filled out, even if one player already has an insurmountable advantage two rounds before that.

Apart from that, even though it's an older game, Skat comes to mind. After you've got your 60/61 points (and your opponent(s) got to 30), you can still technically lose, but only if you misplay - and since that doesn't happen, any half-decent opponent would forfeit at this point. Does anybody know some newer trick-taking games that work similarly?

In Hare & Tortoise, players continue to play after the winner is actually determined, not virtually as in the examples of Othello , Yatzee and Skat.
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