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Subject: BCT Leftovers - US Only Shipping Math Trade (DISCUSSION) rss

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Matt D
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This is the DISCUSSION thread for the BCT Leftovers - US Only Shipping Math Trade. This is a place to discuss the trade, ask questions of the moderator, etc. Please do not use this to call people out publicly or anything like that. Also, please try to limit discussion to topics related to THIS specific Math Trade. If you want to engage in a debate on the merits or politics of math trades in general, this isn't really the thread for that. Thanks!

ALSO: IF you are swinging by to ask a question, great. But if you can, please check the FAQs linked from the main geeklist header first to see if it is covered there, OR read this thread first.

For example, your items don't appear in the OLWLG from the Geeklist until they are manually synced up. This is a question we get about four or five times per trade. We don't mind answering, but to save yourself time, just check out the FAQs. Most things have been covered there. Thanks!

Dates
- Submissions close: Friday, July 29, 2016, 11:00 PM EDT
- Wants due: Monday, August 1, 2016, 11:00 PM EDT
- Results posted: As soon as I can after close

Trade Geeklist: BCT Leftovers - US Only Shipping Math Trade
Requests Geeklist: BCT Leftovers - US Only Shipping Math Trade (REQUESTS)
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Steven Mitchell
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What does the 'Bone Chains and Toothpicks' refer to? Is this simply just a plain ol' vanilla US-only shipping trade, or are there special restrictions that I should be aware of before deciding to participate?
 
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Kevin L. Kitchens
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patton1138 wrote:
What does the 'Bone Chains and Toothpicks' refer to? Is this simply just a plain ol' vanilla US-only shipping trade, or are there special restrictions that I should be aware of before deciding to participate?


It's a line from "Swan Swan H" by R.E.M.

Johnny Reb, what's the price of fans
Forty apiece or three for one dollar
Hey, captain, don't you want to buy
Some bone chains and toothpicks
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Steven Mitchell
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May I suggest not using such obscure titles then? I didn't bother looking into the original MT because I assumed from the title it might be related to a convention or such. Matt's title was much more clear, though, as you can see, by referring to the original title, the question still lingered whether there was something important I wasn't picking up on.
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Ian Kissell
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patton1138 wrote:
May I suggest not using such obscure titles then? I didn't bother looking into the original MT because I assumed from the title it might be related to a convention or such. Matt's title was much more clear, though, as you can see, by referring to the original title, the question still lingered whether there was something important I wasn't picking up on.


Both titles said "US Shipping Math Trade," which is all that is needed to identify as not a convention trade.
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Steven Mitchell
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I didn't even get that far in the title, to be honest. When my subscription brings me to the MT thread, I know that I'm only going to be able to participate in 10% of the listed trades, so I just skim. When I saw 'Bone Chains and Toothpicks' at the front of the title, I figured it was referring to something that didn't pertain to me and kept skimming. And the original didn't actually indicate clearly in the title that it was 'US Only Shipping'.

If it isn't a convention, maybe it's a club like The Secret Cabal or whatever. I dunno. All I knew is the title didn't mean anything to me and was left with the mistaken assumption that it would mean something to all of those who were welcome to participate. I didn't even give it a second thought, barely even a first thought.

It was only in seeing Matt's familiar avatar and the 'Leftovers' in the title that I thought, 'Wait, did I miss a prior trade?' and only then looked into it further. But you'll note, I still had the question of whether I would be able to participate or not. Thus the question.

And I suspect I wasn't the only one. Compare the numbers for other general US Shipping MTs to that one: 476 users; 610 users; 453 users; 627 users; compared to the BTC one with only 357 users.
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Kevin L. Kitchens
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patton1138 wrote:
May I suggest not using such obscure titles then? I didn't bother looking into the original MT because I assumed from the title it might be related to a convention or such. Matt's title was much more clear, though, as you can see, by referring to the original title, the question still lingered whether there was something important I wasn't picking up on.


There is a long standing tradition of have clever names for the trades.

That won't change. The details follow.
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Kevin L. Kitchens
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patton1138 wrote:
And I suspect I wasn't the only one. Compare the numbers for other general US Shipping MTs to that one: 476 users; 610 users; 453 users; 627 users; compared to the BTC one with only 357 users.


Most of which had equally "obscure" titles.

We're good.
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Brandon M
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patton1138 wrote:
I didn't even get that far in the title, to be honest.


You should have read the full title.

If there are any question on if you can participate, read the trade rules, which you should do every time anyways.

patton1138 wrote:
And I suspect I wasn't the only one. Compare the numbers for other general US Shipping MTs to that one: 476 users; 610 users; 453 users; 627 users; compared to the BTC one with only 357 users.


I am not sure that trade titles are as big of a problem as you want the numbers to indicate. The user participation is probably low because it overlaps with the GenCon trade, which ends the 28th.

I know that if I had the choice between a convenient no-ship trade and a shipping trade, I'd always go with the no-ship trade.
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Patrick G.
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Good luck guys! I am not going to participate in this one since 95% of what I had last trade no one wanted. haha. Maybe next time...

Happy trading!
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Michael Gerstbrein
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corkysru wrote:
Good luck guys! I am not going to participate in this one since 95% of what I had last trade no one wanted. haha. Maybe next time...

Happy trading!


I'm feeling you.
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Steven Mitchell
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klkitchens wrote:
There is a long standing tradition of have clever names for the trades. Most of which had equally "obscure" titles.


I totally disagree. They're pretty transparent, in referencing something that pretty much everyone is aware of that's going on in the world: Christmas, Thanksgiving, New Year's, the Super Bowl, Leap Day, Ides of March, Tax Day, Daylight Savings, &c. They aren't per se meaningless.

I suppose it's also worth noting that I only now realize I've missed some of Kevin's other MTs (e.g., Back Where You Belong) for the same reason.

Quote:
The details follow.

Quote:
You should have read the full title.

Quote:
Both titles said "US Shipping Math Trade," which is all that is needed to identify as not a convention trade.


You mean 'GC-10+, US-50'? Sorry, that isn't going to entice me to click through. I've participated in over a dozen MTs, and that's utter gibberish to me. Only in hindsight do I even think I know what that means.

Quote:
If there are any question on if you can participate, read the trade rules, which you should do every time anyways.


The point is, with the original, I never even got to the point that I questioned whether I could participate. I assumed I couldn't and just moved right past it. On the other hand, Matt's title did have enough transparency to get me to that point where I wondered if I could participate, clicked through, scanned the rules, and came out and asked the question.

This is marketing 101: if the response to a question about clarity is, 'Well, if you had done X, it would have been clear to you,' that's probably missing the point, which is really about that they weren't even initially enticed enough to do X.

Quote:
The user participation is probably low because it overlaps with the GenCon trade, which ends the 28th.


Certainly a possibility.

Look, I don't really care one way or the other whether I miss out on a math trade here or there. I certainly enjoy the opportunity to participate, but it's no skin off my back. It was simply a suggestion, based on my personal experience, that clearer titles may encourage broader participation. And given how a math trade works, that is exponentially good for everyone participating!

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Edward Guida
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corkysru wrote:
Good luck guys! I am not going to participate in this one since 95% of what I had last trade no one wanted. haha. Maybe next time...

Happy trading!

Same on who wanted mine in the main trade, although I am going to try again and see what happens. Keep wondering what I am going to do with the stuff that never trades.
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Matt D
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patton1138 wrote:
May I suggest not using such obscure titles then? I didn't bother looking into the original MT because I assumed from the title it might be related to a convention or such. Matt's title was much more clear, though, as you can see, by referring to the original title, the question still lingered whether there was something important I wasn't picking up on.


I'll be honest, I was unfamiliar with the reference initially myself, but presumed it to be a song lyric of some kind. I paid zero attention to it when I was a participant, but ran a quick google check on it today and saw it's from the REM song. But it is apparently an obscure enough lyric that the math trade was on the first page of the google search results.

In any case, I did shorten it to the acronym just for the sake of brevity -- I didn't want to change it because it was a leftovers trade, but I also didn't feel like putting that whole thing in.

I will say that most of the US based math trades have some kind of stupid names. That's sort of our "thing":

Back Where You Belong
Trimming The Fat
Leaves Change We Trade
Keepin' it Real (Short)
The TaxMan Cometh
Beware the Ides of Math Trad

My all-time favorite though is:

Emptying out the Freezer: An Instant Leftovers US Only Math Trade


BTW, if you think using silly names for a geeklist is bad, don't check out Flea Market Trade Lists Subscription Thread devil
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Kevin L. Kitchens
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burke4865 wrote:
corkysru wrote:
Good luck guys! I am not going to participate in this one since 95% of what I had last trade no one wanted. haha. Maybe next time...

Happy trading!

Same on who wanted mine in the main trade, although I am going to try again and see what happens. Keep wondering what I am going to do with the stuff that never trades.


You never know what each trade will bring, different eyes, different wants, etc.. No harm in listing them. Or in lowering what you'll take for it.

Or bundling with other sweeteners.
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Christy Risser-Milne
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Agree on being unsure about the things no one was interested in ...

But since I've been gifted games in the past (good, valuable games) I'm going to follow suit. Find someone who would enjoy giving some games a try.

Of course, I'll give them one more go this time first.
 
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Kevin L. Kitchens
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hestiansun wrote:
patton1138 wrote:
May I suggest not using such obscure titles then? I didn't bother looking into the original MT because I assumed from the title it might be related to a convention or such. Matt's title was much more clear, though, as you can see, by referring to the original title, the question still lingered whether there was something important I wasn't picking up on.


I'll be honest, I was unfamiliar with the reference initially myself, but presumed it to be a song lyric of some kind. I paid zero attention to it when I was a participant, but ran a quick google check on it today and saw it's from the REM song. But it is apparently an obscure enough lyric that the math trade was on the first page of the google search results.

In any case, I did shorten it to the acronym just for the sake of brevity -- I didn't want to change it because it was a leftovers trade, but I also didn't feel like putting that whole thing in.

I will say that most of the US based math trades have some kind of stupid names. That's sort of our "thing":

Back Where You Belong
Trimming The Fat
Leaves Change We Trade
Keepin' it Real (Short)
The TaxMan Cometh
Beware the Ides of Math Trad

My all-time favorite though is:

Emptying out the Freezer: An Instant Leftovers US Only Math Trade


BTW, if you think using silly names for a geeklist is bad, don't check out N/A devil


There was "The Games of Summer" too I believe.

I picked it because the lyrics hint at buying/selling/trading/commerce. And everytime I see it, the song goes into my head.
 
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Kevin L. Kitchens
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mac03579 wrote:
Agree on being unsure about the things no one was interested in ...

But since I've been gifted games in the past (good, valuable games) I'm going to follow suit. Find someone who would enjoy giving some games a try.

Of course, I'll give them one more go this time first.


Wargames have several "Pay it Forward" threads where you take a game you want and offer another to continue the chain.

Games with solo options have one as well (several chains running at the same time).

Perhaps there are other such groups around the Geek?
 
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Christy Risser-Milne
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Well obviously my knowledge of the depths of The Geek is lacking.

What is the correct way to look for these sorts of places/threads? I understand how powerful the search is, but with the power comes the need for knowledge of how to stroke it just right to get the desired output. I'm still trying to figure out that subtely.

 
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Kevin L. Kitchens
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mac03579 wrote:
Well obviously my knowledge of the depths of The Geek is lacking.

What is the correct way to look for these sorts of places/threads? I understand how powerful the search is, but with the power comes the need for knowledge of how to stroke it just right to get the desired output. I'm still trying to figure out that subtely.



Wargamers Paying It Forward

Wargamers - Fair Trade it Forward

The Solo Games Chain of Generosity
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Matt D
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mac03579 wrote:
Well obviously my knowledge of the depths of The Geek is lacking.

What is the correct way to look for these sorts of places/threads? I understand how powerful the search is, but with the power comes the need for knowledge of how to stroke it just right to get the desired output. I'm still trying to figure out that subtely.



No, it's the Geek that is lacking. Seriously, when I was trying to post up the link to the Flea Market thread, I searched "Flea Market" in the geeklist search box and none of them came up. I ended up (as usually) going through my subscription list to find the most recent one.

The search functionality for this site is abhorrent except for individual games. Even then, it has some quirks...

But with regards to the material of your request, if you are really looking for something good to do with games that you don't want anymore, check out All about the Jack Vasel Memorial Fund (again, with the search I couldn't find the more recent auction than 2014, but there is one every year).

Be forewarned, you may want to have a kleenex or two around when reading. (And that's not a joke)

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Matt D
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There's also Pay it Forward First (PIFF) — Spreading Board Game Geek Love, which started July of 2015 and is over 1000 entries long already.
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Ben Locke
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The title of the next math trade needs to be "I Spit In Your Mashed Potatoes".

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patton1138 wrote:
I didn't even get that far in the title, to be honest. When my subscription brings me to the MT thread, I know that I'm only going to be able to participate in 10% of the listed trades, so I just skim. When I saw 'Bone Chains and Toothpicks' at the front of the title, I figured it was referring to something that didn't pertain to me and kept skimming. And the original didn't actually indicate clearly in the title that it was 'US Only Shipping'.

If it isn't a convention, maybe it's a club like The Secret Cabal or whatever. I dunno. All I knew is the title didn't mean anything to me and was left with the mistaken assumption that it would mean something to all of those who were welcome to participate. I didn't even give it a second thought, barely even a first thought.

It was only in seeing Matt's familiar avatar and the 'Leftovers' in the title that I thought, 'Wait, did I miss a prior trade?' and only then looked into it further. But you'll note, I still had the question of whether I would be able to participate or not. Thus the question.

And I suspect I wasn't the only one. Compare the numbers for other general US Shipping MTs to that one: 476 users; 610 users; 453 users; 627 users; compared to the BTC one with only 357 users.


Yup, same thing here as far as accidentally overlooking because of the BCT name and lack of a familiar moderator- my hunch is that the leftovers may be larger than the original.
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Kevin L. Kitchens
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eknauer wrote:
patton1138 wrote:
I didn't even get that far in the title, to be honest. When my subscription brings me to the MT thread, I know that I'm only going to be able to participate in 10% of the listed trades, so I just skim. When I saw 'Bone Chains and Toothpicks' at the front of the title, I figured it was referring to something that didn't pertain to me and kept skimming. And the original didn't actually indicate clearly in the title that it was 'US Only Shipping'.

If it isn't a convention, maybe it's a club like The Secret Cabal or whatever. I dunno. All I knew is the title didn't mean anything to me and was left with the mistaken assumption that it would mean something to all of those who were welcome to participate. I didn't even give it a second thought, barely even a first thought.

It was only in seeing Matt's familiar avatar and the 'Leftovers' in the title that I thought, 'Wait, did I miss a prior trade?' and only then looked into it further. But you'll note, I still had the question of whether I would be able to participate or not. Thus the question.

And I suspect I wasn't the only one. Compare the numbers for other general US Shipping MTs to that one: 476 users; 610 users; 453 users; 627 users; compared to the BTC one with only 357 users.


Yup, same thing here as far as accidentally overlooking because of the BCT name and lack of a familiar moderator- my hunch is that the leftovers may be larger than the original.


Tell what we've always told our kids.

"Don't tell yourself no." meaning find out, don't just assume you know the answer.

So while you didn't recognize the pattern of naming, or the fact that I've hosted many math trades... you likewise did not see anything that told you it didn't include you. It did not have the name of a recognizable convention. It did not have a different country listed. It didn't say "No-Ship"

Nope. You saw something unfamiliar and stopped there. You couldn't bother to read the entire title and catch "US" in it or anything?

Nope. You excluded yourself. NOTHING in the title actually excluded you. You made a knee-jerk decision... an "assumption" that proved false. At the very least you could have pursued until you realized your were truly excluded. I'm betting you're not a high up executive or political figure who has so many responsibilities that you need 26 hours in a day to get by. I bet since you have enough time to write these posts, you probably had enough time to click the link to confirm you were excluded from the trade -- since clearly nothing you saw in the ad excluded you at all. Only your assumptions.

And this is the FIRST time this has been mentioned ever. And it didn't seem to affect the math trade overall. I wish you'd taken part and hope next time you'll look a little closer instead of asking everyone to adjust to accommodate a small minority.
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