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19 Posts

Kingdom Death: Monster» Forums » Rules

Subject: After Damage rss

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S W
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Hi all,

Just realised we might have been playing "after damage" effects wrong.

Do they take effect if the monster deals no damage? Is there a difference between the monster getting no hits, or getting hits but damaged reduced to zero (by, say, leprosy)?

I think it happens regardless of damage or hits but not 100% sure

Thanks in advance,

S
 
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Joshua Nash
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After damage? I whimper.

But yeah, it takes effect regardless of damage received or not.
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Kajte Briga
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Glossary wrote:
If there is no damage dealt from this attack, do not apply this effect.
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Joshua Nash
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Fasader wrote:
Glossary wrote:
If there is no damage dealt from this attack, do not apply this effect.


Wow, really?! I'll definitely check that when I get home. I'm fairly certain this topic has come up before and I was corrected with the answer I gave.

Looks like I should really never give answers to rule questions.
 
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voltemands voltemands
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Fasader wrote:
Glossary wrote:
If there is no damage dealt from this attack, do not apply this effect.


I thought that the above was true. Otherwise, why distuingish between after hit, and after damage.
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Joshua Nash
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I found this:


Rule book p.215: Damage (Condition): A hit damages a survivor if it removes armor points or causes an injury. Hits which are dodged, blocked, or ignored do not cause damage.

Perhaps someone could look it up.
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ArtSchool
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JPN38 wrote:
I found this:


Rule book p.215: Damage (Condition): A hit damages a survivor if it removes armor points or causes an injury. Hits which are dodged, blocked, or ignored do not cause damage.

Perhaps someone could look it up.


IIRC, "after damage" effects require damage to take place. Otherwise they do not trigger. As explained above, "damage" includes any effect on armor or injury, but excludes dodging, bocking or otherwise ignored damage.

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Joshua Nash
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Shu1984 wrote:
JPN38 wrote:
I found this:


Rule book p.215: Damage (Condition): A hit damages a survivor if it removes armor points or causes an injury. Hits which are dodged, blocked, or ignored do not cause damage.

Perhaps someone could look it up.


IIRC, "after damage" effects require damage to take place. Otherwise they do not trigger. As explained above, "damage" includes any effect on armor or injury, but excludes dodging, bocking or otherwise ignored damage.



Right. So I guess we'd need clarification from OP about "does no damage."

If you tic off an armor rating or tic of a light/heavy damage box, I believe both count as "taking damage."
 
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voltemands voltemands
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Shu1984 wrote:
[q="JPN38"] "damage" includes any effect on armor or injury, but excludes dodging, bocking or otherwise ignored damage.

 
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Nick Wirtz
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So... how's that interact with immortal or the phoenix plackart? Seems like it prevents "after damage" (more obvious on the phoenix plackart)
 
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Alessio Massuoli
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Standing to the definitions in the Living Glossary, it seems like Immortal prevents After Damage triggers.

But, I remember an old conversation that stated the exact opposite. Let me see if I manage to find that.
 
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Jacob Schoberg
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spiralingcadaver wrote:
So... how's that interact with immortal or the phoenix plackart? Seems like it prevents "after damage" (more obvious on the phoenix plackart)


With Immortal, you take physical damage as brain damage. Still damage, no?
 
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Nick Wirtz
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Jacob- looked it up, yes, re: immortal. Plackart says ignore damage & suffer 1 brain damage, immortal says convert damage to brain damage.

But, the damage condition is described as removing armor or causing injury, neither of which are part of taking brain damage.

Going further, looking at brain damage, it appears that taking light brain damage would technically count (since it's an injury level), but it's unclear if insanity acts like armor, or actually is armor.

Either way, I think the source for the brain damage is technically the plackart (stops one thing, does another) while brain damage by immortal would be from the attack... it's just a question of whether it's technically damage when it removes insanity.

If it does technically count as armor, things like the phoenix's peck would nuke an immortal survivor's whole insanity, while a gorm's puke would go straight through it all, and that seems unlikely to be the intent, to me.
 
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S W
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Thanks! I'd checked the rules twice but somehow missed this sentence, even though it's right there! (Page 71, now I've checked a third time!)

In the example I have of leprosy, I will rule "deals 0 damage" as "does not deal damage", I think. Converting damage to brain damage via immortal is, I think, still damage so would trigger these effects.
 
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S W
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Leprosy reduces damage taken by one, but I'd forgotten that it reduces it to a minimum of one. Obviously not my day for remembering rules.

More generally, I was trying to consider a scenario - and I think Flower knight can technically do this at level one in combination with some other effects - where an attack hits, is unevaded but deals zero damage. But it's a very niche case
 
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Nick Wirtz
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Siseph wrote:
Converting damage to brain damage via immortal is, I think, still damage
Why?

If that's the case, (regardless of immortal) do things that double damage also double brain damage you suffer? Does Leprosy or the lion cloak reduce brain damage? Because they're things that interact with damage. If not, why not?

You just suggested that 0 damage is the same as no damage. Immortal reduces actual damage to 0, meaning it's only doing brain damage.
 
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Adam

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Nick, I think you are right here. The game treats damage and brain damage as two separate things.
 
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S W
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I'm coming round to that view too. The trite position is that the word "damage" in the phrase "brain damage" means it's damage. Reading the glossary contradicts this, but the wording on page 71 seems to support this.

At the end of the day, Nick's interpretation seems to produce less counter-intuitive results, so I think I'll switch and say that brain damage != damage
 
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Matt Onyx
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Immortal specifically doesn't have the wording of the phoenix plackart. You still suffer the damage, the location is just changed. That's like saying using crossarm block would negate the "after damage" effect because it was redirected, even though you still took the damage.
 
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