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Android: Netrunner» Forums » General

Subject: Longish question... rss

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Chip Elan
United States
Glendale
Arizona
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Hi,

Here's some background before my question.

About 2 months ago I got interested in play board games as a way to wind down at night. The first (well, only real game) I bought was The Lord of the Rings LCG. Yes it is difficult and yes I still am reading up on various cards and what they do, but I do find it enjoyable. I don't have any expansions yet and I really haven't built a custom deck yet. I play at night before turning in as a way to unwind from the day.

The question.

I would like a game I can play against the wife. I would like it to be a card game (transportable) and with expansions. I think she would get bored if it was the same game over and over. She is competitive so it would need to be a head to head game.

I've thought about MtG, Star Wars LCG, and Android:Netrunner. We haven't watched or read Game of Thrones so I don't think that would be a good start for us.

Would Android:Netrunner be too advanced as a starting game? She didn't really want to look at Star Wars LCG (though I thought it looked fun). I've watched some videos on Netrunner and think it looks great, difficult to learn, but great. I like the theme and attack/defense nature of it.

I kind of want something to get her into the hobby and not scare her away.

Thoughts would be appreciated.

 
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Clyde W
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Does she like any other games yet? I think ANR is a fantastic game, but not sure it's a great gateway game...
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Danwarr
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A:NR is probably the most complicated of the FFG LCGs if only because of all the terminology and timing structures associated with it, combined with the fact that it is asymmetrical.

The Core Set box is a pretty self-contained experience and has a lot of replayability in it. Before you play, however, I would highly recommend getting very, and I mean very, familiar with the rules. Even then, it might take a few plays for the game to really "click" if you aren't super familiar with card games in general.

Learning to play Netrunner is a bit of time investment, but is well worth it, in my opinion.
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Chip Elan
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Glendale
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Quote:
Does she like any other games yet? I think ANR is a fantastic game, but not sure it's a great gateway game...


Yes. So far Monopoly the Deck Game (or whatever it is called), and Valley of the Kings. We played VotK a few times and she likes it.

It's funny, if the game is easy to learn and play, I think she would get bored of it quickly as it would become repetitive. I think a hard game would be more rewarding to learn, but she would have to fight through the learning curve. I think I said that right...
 
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Clyde W
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Anything is possible. I mean, to be honest, the core set is 25 online and 40 in stores, so it's a pretty cheap investment and people are very likely to buy your unwanted core solely for Desperado and San San City Grid
 
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Thomas Grogan
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Ashes would be a good game as well.
 
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Sebastian Zarzycki
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Chip33az wrote:

Would Android:Netrunner be too advanced as a starting game?


Yes.

ANR is probably the best competitive card game you can get on the market, and is *the choice* in the long run. But it's entry level is very high and even if you know the rules, understanding the strategy and tactics is difficult in such a sublime game. It's easy to get frustrated until someone doesn't show you how to balance the tempo and work with it towards the advantage.

Before that, try Ashes or Summoner Wars. Or even 7 Wonders: Duel or Seasons or Abyss or Imperial Settlers.
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Hedyn Brand
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It's a hardcore game, deckbuilding-wise. You MUST rebuild. You MUST explore tricky combos. This is the lure, though

I would wait a little while for the two champ decks which should be in stores any day now. They're pre-built corp and runner decks, ready to play, which I think would be a more interesting introduction to the game than the example decks from the core.

Buy the core later if you like it, and you have a nice start. Collect deluxes to feed the addiction. Get datapacks once you're beyond all hope.
 
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Sebastian Zarzycki
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Dan's decks are in no way a good "introduction" to the game. They're very specific and not easy to pilot. Certainly not introduction material.
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Yuriy Deomidov
Ukraine
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Netrunner is really hardcore. It can work if you both have experience with LCG/CCG and/or other complex card games (have your wife played LotR already? Does she like it?), but even then she might not like the game. It helps if she likes the theme and you have someone familiar with rules nearby.

I suggest other options:
Star Realms is light and fun game, my wife loves it. It's what got her into boardgaming.
Seasons is much more complex game than Star Realms, but it worked really well with my wife too. Visually appealing, bun not very portable.
Race for the Galaxy is good for two as well. Hard to get through rules/iconography at first, but it's fluent and fun to play after that. I advise to try it on boardgamearena.com first - easier to learn on computer.
 
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Seth Ben-Ezra
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RustyKnight wrote:
Netrunner is really hardcore. It can work if you both have experience with LCG/CCG and/or other complex card games (have your wife played LotR already? Does she like it?), but even then she might not like the game. It helps if she likes the theme and you have someone familiar with rules nearby.

I suggest other options:
Star Realms is light and fun game, my wife loves it. It's what got her into boardgaming.
Seasons is much more complex game than Star Realms, but it worked really well with my wife too. Visually appealing, bun not very portable.
Race for the Galaxy is good for two as well. Hard to get through rules/iconography at first, but it's fluent and fun to play after that. I advise to try it on boardgamearena.com first - easier to learn on computer.


I second Race for the Galaxy as a great two-player game which also makes for a good stepping stone into the world of LCG/CCGs, due to the nature of gameplay being about identifying card interactions and exploiting them successfully. After that, perhaps Mottainai, which lives in a similar space to Race for the Galaxy.

If these games are a success, then perhaps Netrunner is a logical follow-on.

Now, this is all based on you and your wife's rules tolerance. If the two of you are already into more complex games (think Magic: the Gathering here), then I'd say to go for it! I love Netrunner, and I love playing Netrunner against my wife, who is smart, competitive, and devious. So, I wouldn't want to deny you the joy of dueling with your wife across a Netrunner table. Totally worth it.

Seth Ben-Ezra
Great Wolf
 
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Yuriy Deomidov
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GreatWolf wrote:
If the two of you are already into more complex games (think Magic: the Gathering here)

I would argue that on the basic level MtG is about the same complexity as Star Realms. Over years it accumulated card pool with all kinds of wonkey interactions that had to be resolved, had several rules overhauls, clarifications, clarifications on clarifications etc. But you don't need to know it all to start playing. Which is a big part of it's popularity.
 
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Remy Gibson
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Patchwork is another good 2-player game ... which actually doesn't use cards.

The game "weight" listed on a game's page here on BGG can be helpful. In my experience, games that have a weight higher than about 2.5 (out of 5) seem daunting for many casual or new gamers. Note that Android: Netrunner is listed as 3.33, and The Lord of the Rings LCG is 3.10, which is fairly comparable.

Valley of the Kings (which you also mentioned) has a weight of 2.21; Patchwork (as I mentioned above) is even lower at 1.73.

Other common "gateway" games (some already mentioned in this thread) are:

Splendor (1.85)
7 Wonders: Duel (2.26)
Star Realms (1.98)
Ticket to Ride (1.88, though that seems a touch low)
Lost Cities (1.52)
[Settlers of] Catan (2.37, not playable with 2)
7 Wonders (2.35, also not playable with 2)

On the other hand, some of the other games mentioned in this thread are significantly more complex:

Ashes (2.85)
Summoner Wars (2.52)
Seasons (2.75)
Imperial Settlers (2.75)
Race for the Galaxy (2.97)

Of course, these numbers are not hard and fast, but they do give a general idea of complexity. The range is quite narrow: games like LCR and Animal Upon Animal are down around 1, whereas anything above 4 is probably an intricate war game or a very complex Euro. So the difference between 2 and 3 is enormous, and the difference even between 2 and 2.25 is noticeable.
 
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Yuriy Deomidov
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Aweberman wrote:
7 Wonders (2.35, also not playable with 2)

That's a popular misconception.
 
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Paul Dempster
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rattkin wrote:
ANR is probably the best competitive card game you can get on the market, and is *the choice* in the long run. But it's entry level is very high and even if you know the rules, understanding the strategy and tactics is difficult in such a sublime game. It's easy to get frustrated until someone doesn't show you how to balance the tempo and work with it towards the advantage.


Quoted for truth.

I recommend starting with Dominion, it is very popular and widely available and my wife loves it. It will introduce you to deckbuilding and card combo mechanics which will be a good basis for future gaming. Has loads of expansions but portability can be an issue.

 
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Hedyn Brand
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Any two differently themed Dominion sets will have enormous variation. It's an excellent game for most ages, and usually quick to play.
 
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Andrew Keddie
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RustyKnight wrote:
Aweberman wrote:
7 Wonders (2.35, also not playable with 2)

That's a popular misconception.


Indeed, though the 2-player variant is something I wouldn't attempt unless you're already familiar with the normal 3-7 player game.
 
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Carl
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Chip, I'm in a similar situation, and I've been debating over introducing my wife to Netrunner.

I absolutely love Netrunner, but you may find that someone new to gaming looking for casual evening entertainment is less likely to be interested in the mental commitment to deckbuilding that's an essential part of LCG/CCGs.

If you're looking for other gateway games, I would start with 7 Wonders Duel. It's an awesome two-player, portable, easy-to-learn card game, requiring a good deal of strategy with nominal direct conflict between players.
 
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