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Mansions of Madness: Second Edition» Forums » General

Subject: Wait a second: How will expansions work? rss

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Enon Sci
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Undoubtedly FFG will monetize the app with scenario microtransactions. But I'm started to get a touch curious how they'll do scenarios associated with expansions...

Road to Legend has it easy, it just ignores the scenarios and incorporates the other content from Descent's big and small box expansions. MoM, on the otherhand, can't digitally monetize expansion scenarios, as the physical purchase should satisfy the cost of admission.

So this leads me to wonder if we'll be getting the expansion scenarios for free, or whether the game will alter the usual relationship we've seen between a physical expansion and the continuing adventures we have come to associate with their release.

For example, maybe all the (future) scenarios will be "generic" in the sense they could be played with any amount of content, but the emphasis on expansion content will be present if you own it (i.e. the weighted probabilities lean heavily towards the expansion content if the game detects it). That would be cool, but would really change the dynamic (e.g. we'd no longer have scenarios concretely associated with Call of the Wild. Rather, mechanical tweaks will be introduced by a Call of the Wild box, and general scenarios will be added to the app to coincide with its release, playable with or without the expansion). That feels a touch bland, if so.

Thoughts?
 
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Alexander Steinbach
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I am assuming that they will still release normal, boxed, expansions. These will expand your tiles, characters, monsters, and various cards. Probably they will also include scenarios that can't be played without the expansion.

Furthermore, I think they may also release separate scenarios as microtransactions. They will probably replace the PoD scenarios which will probably be cheaper and better all around.
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trevor

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Well I guess we won't know until more info is released, don't you think?
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Chris J Davis
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It's not a problem at all. Scenarios that require physical expansions can just be released on the app for free. You can tell the app you have the physical expansion if you want, but if you don't really, then you're going to have a problem when the app tells you to place tile X and, oh darn... don't have it. shake
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Enon Sci
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Vardaine wrote:
I am assuming that they will still release normal, boxed, expansions. These will expand your tiles, characters, monsters, and various cards. Probably they will also include scenarios that can't be played without the expansion.


And THIS is precisely the line of thinking that prompted my post. How would they lock out the expansion scenario? Include a flash drive in the box with the scenario on it? Infeasible. Include a code in the box? Cumbersome. Limit the range of the permutability of the scenarios so they lean so heavily on the expansion content that they won't work without it? Possible, but we'd still likely be able to download that for free, even if we couldn't use it (i.e. we could preview it in a way we never have been able to before).

 
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Anarchosyn wrote:
Limit the range of the permutability of the scenarios so they lean so heavily on the expansion content that they won't work without it? Possible, but we'd still likely be able to download that for free, even if we couldn't use it (i.e. we could preview it in a way we never have been able to before).



So what? It would probably just encourage more people to go out and buy the expansion so they can play it.
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Brian Bowles
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I'm also hoping the app will have some ability to add in user created content as well. Otherwise, the files section of this listing is going to be a mighty empty place.
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Alexander Steinbach
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Im assuming that they will do the same thing as they did with road to legend. Meaning that they will not lock the scenario in any way. You have to input to the app what content you have bought and based on that you can choose a scenario. This means that you can indeed pretend to have something that you don't. However since you then don't have the necessary game components to actual play the scenario (remember this is still a board game) that will be useless.

They do this in road to legend and it works fine. Sure you can proxy stuff and go on a limb to cheat the system (and probably some indeed do) but the amount of effort you need to invest is such that it would have been easier to just get the expansion.
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bleached_lizard wrote:
Anarchosyn wrote:
Limit the range of the permutability of the scenarios so they lean so heavily on the expansion content that they won't work without it? Possible, but we'd still likely be able to download that for free, even if we couldn't use it (i.e. we could preview it in a way we never have been able to before).



So what? It would probably just encourage more people to go out and buy the expansion so they can play it.


You seem to think I'm doom and glooming, and that isn't my intent. Rather, the "so what" is that this (if so) will be a change to their model for content distribution, and possibly one in the consumer's favor (i.e. newsworthy).

At the very least, it seems speculation worthy. FFG has never had a game like this where the expansion content would need to straddle both physical and digital domains.

Vardaine wrote:
Im assuming that they will do the same thing as they did with road to legend. Meaning that they will not lock the scenario in any way.


Actually, the first scenario they added to the app (the good one, name escapes me) was supposed to be $10, but they decided to put it out for free.

However, this won't work for a MoM expansion, because of the physical media involved.
 
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shadowsclassic wrote:
I'm also hoping the app will have some ability to add in user created content as well. Otherwise, the files section of this listing is going to be a mighty empty place.


This is something I've been wondering as well. Even though I've never actually played any of the 1E fan-made scenarios (because I can rarely ever convince people to play the darn game with me) I think they sound awesome and I think it's great that they exist. I'm really, really hoping that FFG allows for some way for fans to continue to create and upload their own scenarios.

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DancingFool wrote:
shadowsclassic wrote:
I'm also hoping the app will have some ability to add in user created content as well. Otherwise, the files section of this listing is going to be a mighty empty place.


This is something I've been wondering as well. Even though I've never actually played any of the 1E fan-made scenarios (because I can rarely ever convince people to play the darn game with me) I think they sound awesome and I think it's great that they exist. I'm really, really hoping that FFG allows for some way for fans to continue to create and upload their own scenarios.



For these things: start a petition, both here and on FFG website, then, once enough names have been collected, mail FFG's customer service. If numbers are good, they MIGHT eventually consider it
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DancingFool wrote:
shadowsclassic wrote:
I'm also hoping the app will have some ability to add in user created content as well. Otherwise, the files section of this listing is going to be a mighty empty place.


This is something I've been wondering as well. Even though I've never actually played any of the 1E fan-made scenarios (because I can rarely ever convince people to play the darn game with me) I think they sound awesome and I think it's great that they exist. I'm really, really hoping that FFG allows for some way for fans to continue to create and upload their own scenarios.



Humm.. FFG could create a PC/Mac editor for their Steam releases, and host the files there. No chance for ios or Android stuff, though. Do user created mods exist for anything in these domains?
 
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Anarchosyn wrote:
Undoubtedly FFG will monetize the app with scenario microtransactions. But I'm started to get a touch curious how they'll do scenarios associated with expansions...

Road to Legend has it easy, it just ignores the scenarios and incorporates the other content from Descent's big and small box expansions. MoM, on the otherhand, can't digitally monetize expansion scenarios, as the physical purchase should satisfy the cost of admission.

So this leads me to wonder if we'll be getting the expansion scenarios for free, or whether the game will alter the usual relationship we've seen between a physical expansion and the continuing adventures we have come to associate with their release.

For example, maybe all the (future) scenarios will be "generic" in the sense they could be played with any amount of content, but the emphasis on expansion content will be present if you own it (i.e. the weighted probabilities lean heavily towards the expansion content if the game detects it). That would be cool, but would really change the dynamic (e.g. we'd no longer have scenarios concretely associated with Call of the Wild. Rather, mechanical tweaks will be introduced by a Call of the Wild box, and general scenarios will be added to the app to coincide with its release, playable with or without the expansion). That feels a touch bland, if so.

Thoughts?


My thoughts: I never witnessed such a harsh conclusion out of pure assumption.
 
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Cameron McKenzie
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I can totally see digital expansions working if they use existing content from the base game.
I can also see physical boxes working , with a free app update that adds new scenarios to go with the physical box (and allows other scenarios to use the box content of you mark it available in the options)
Finally, they can even do digital expansions that require expansion content, just inform the user before they buy the digital expansion that a physical box expansion is required (and if the user doesn't toggle that box expansion in their options, the scenario would not even show up)
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Alexander Steinbach
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Anarchosyn wrote:

Actually, the first scenario they added to the app (the good one, name escapes me) was supposed to be $10, but they decided to put it out for free.

However, this won't work for a MoM expansion, because of the physical media involved.


That was an entire campaign, not a single scenario. In that campaign, you can have random quests that can appear based on physical expansions that you own. You can check every box and play quests you don't have the components from. That is what I meant.

But I don't know anything more than you do, they may come up with something completely different. Could also be a mix between complementary scenarios and purchasable scenarios or something.
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Exilfranke wrote:


My thoughts: I never witnessed such a harsh conclusion out of pure assumption.


Dial back the defensive fanboyism. I have no fears or worries, I'm just genuinely curious about what has to be a change in their business model. I don't necessarily believe the end result will be generic, I was saying *my hypothesis*, which came from a logical deduction from known first principles, sounded generic. However, the implication for discussion was my deduction wasn't the only path.

What we *know* is that the model can't be what we're familiar with. In other words, you won't buy an expansion and pull new scenarios out of it. Those scenarios will likely be delivered digitally, but they also can't be monetized due to the implied double charge. So either they will do something unexpected (monetize the expansion content, etc), or offer the expansion scenarios for free (but mitigate their usefulness if you don't have the physical components). However, have you ever tried to find a FFG scenario book online? FFG has NEVER been in the business of opening that kind of stuff up for free, or even casual pre-purchase review, hence my amazement and this post.

bleached_lizard wrote:
It's not a problem at all. Scenarios that require physical expansions can just be released on the app for free. You can tell the app you have the physical expansion if you want, but if you don't really, then you're going to have a problem when the app tells you to place tile X and, oh darn... don't have it. shake


But even this would be a notable change in how FFG puts out expansion scenarios. It would allow people to preview the content before purchase, something they've never really offered before (hence notable topic for discussion, hence this post).

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Dean Love
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Anarchosyn wrote:
Vardaine wrote:
I am assuming that they will still release normal, boxed, expansions. These will expand your tiles, characters, monsters, and various cards. Probably they will also include scenarios that can't be played without the expansion.


And THIS is precisely the line of thinking that prompted my post. How would they lock out the expansion scenario? Include a flash drive in the box with the scenario on it? Infeasible. Include a code in the box? Cumbersome. Limit the range of the permutability of the scenarios so they lean so heavily on the expansion content that they won't work without it? Possible, but we'd still likely be able to download that for free, even if we couldn't use it (i.e. we could preview it in a way we never have been able to before).


Well you could preview it, but if you did that, you'd also be ruining it for yourself, as while there's randomisation in all the scenarios, the core story is something you can only get for the first time once. The XCOM app is free and you can "preview" that. Indeed, the base game app for MoM2E will likely be free, and you'll be able to "preview" the scenarios on that, so that change in business model will be happening next week, rather than in a future expansion.
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DancingFool wrote:
shadowsclassic wrote:
I'm also hoping the app will have some ability to add in user created content as well. Otherwise, the files section of this listing is going to be a mighty empty place.


This is something I've been wondering as well. Even though I've never actually played any of the 1E fan-made scenarios (because I can rarely ever convince people to play the darn game with me) I think they sound awesome and I think it's great that they exist. I'm really, really hoping that FFG allows for some way for fans to continue to create and upload their own scenarios.



I have a feeling this would be quite difficult. Having made a fan-scenario for 1E, it was a tricky process (and there are plenty of errata associated with it). I can only imagine incorporating randomly generated elements would make it that much harder. I think you would need to have an actual program developed alongside the app to allow construction of your own scenario before you could even begin to develop one.

Not knowing exactly how the app generates the board, it would be pretty difficult to patch in a believable storyline to a scenario and also would make it difficult to deliberately seed clues tied to the story throughout the map.

I don't think it will be custom-user-friendly anyway, but if it was, FFG would most definitely have to program the app to assist the user during creation of the scenario.
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Enon Sci
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Were any of the fan made scenarios any good? Were there loads of them for 1E, or just a few stand-outs?
 
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Alexander Steinbach
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Many were a lot better than some of the official scenarios. There were not an awful lot of them, but enough to keep you busy for quite a while.
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Anarchosyn wrote:
Were any of the fan made scenarios any good? Were there loads of them for 1E, or just a few stand-outs?


I honestly didn't have a group interested enough to play most of them, but excluding errata, the one's I played were quite good. There was one about a witch and a mirror-world that was great.

The best part of 1E is that the timing on the game was very tight. About 80% of my games were all determined by the last round possible (no event cards left) but most of the time it was because either the keeper or the players were going to win. It FELT like a race against the clock/each other every game.

The problem was replayability and very obnoxious turn/action obstruction on the keeper's part. The scenarios with hallways tended to have one player lead the way performing most of the exploring while the rest followed with no real actions to take.

Anyway, yes, if you are going to play 1E, stick to CotW scenarios or fan-made ones.
 
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