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Tyrants of the Underdark» Forums » General

Subject: Counterbuilding and counterplay? rss

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Carl Hintze
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Is there any counterbuilding or counterplay in this game?

Do you need to watch what your opponent is buying and then go for cards that counter that?
Are there even counters to things in the decks?

Or do you all just buy "Get more power"cards and hope for the best?
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Anthony Faber
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I'm probably not the best person to answer this, as I haven't played yet (my copy arrives today), but after reading the rules backwards and forwards and looking at many of the cards I have a few thoughts.

It seems there are definitely multiple paths to victory - there are not simply 'power' cards that you go for that are the best.

One path seems to involve promotion and high point value cards. This strategy would involve getting lots of influence and promote cards so you could buy the best cards and get them into your inner circle.

Another strategy could be based on controlling areas - accumulating power, getting troops to as many areas as possible, assassinating and supplanting as necessary, and getting big end game (and some mid game) points based on area control.

A sub-strategy seems to be messing with opponents board points by using spies to get to their areas and undermine control, and removing their troops (possibly replacing them with your own). Another spy strategy goes for card quantity by playing spies and then removing them for cards.

Getting to the other main question, it definitely seems like best play requires paying attention to what the other players are doing. You can then hate draft or draft in ways that allow you to defend against or counter what they are doing on the board. It definitely doesn't seem like a solitaire style deck builder where you can just work on your own engine and ignore what the other players are doing.
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Randy Espinoza
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There's a full gameplay online. Maybe that would help answer your question: https://youtu.be/hxRipCR1wHA
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Andrew Veen
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Cazzmataz wrote:
Is there any counterbuilding or counterplay in this game?

Do you need to watch what your opponent is buying and then go for cards that counter that?
Are there even counters to things in the decks?

Or do you all just buy "Get more power"cards and hope for the best?


It's different in each game due to market uncertainty and varies a bit depending on how many players, but we designed it to reward intentional deckbuilding and awareness of the gamestate. The most important factor is making sure that your deck is focused on achieving whatever goal you want to achieve, but not far behind is making sure that you have the tools to deal with what your opponents are doing.

In some cases it will be very obvious (your opponent is giving you insane outcasts, you probably want devour or promote to counteract that), but other times it will be subtle (your opponent is full Conquest, you probably don't want to go full Ambition and hope to win via promote).

Great question, here's hoping you enjoy the game
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Jonathan Davis
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There's also build variety based on the two faction decks that are chosen at the start of the game to comprise the market deck.
I've done a couple playthroughs just to get the rules down - there's definitely some card synergies to take advantage of. IMHO not only can you build counter strategies from a deck perspective, but also from a board perspective. I really dig how the board comes into play with the cards for just this reason.
 
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Mikkel Øberg
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I played my first game (of which there will be many) yesterday, and when my wife bought three "place a spy"-cards in a row I knew I had to either get spy-removal directly or more power to pay for it the hard way.

Definitely a deck-builder with more interaction in cards chosen compared to most competitors, though not as much as Rune Age in a competitive scenario.
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Anthony Faber
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Gregaria wrote:
I played my first game (of which there will be many) yesterday, and when my wife bought three "place a spy"-cards in a row I knew I had to either get spy-removal directly or more power to pay for it the hard way.

Definitely a deck-builder with more interaction in cards chosen compared to most competitors, though not as much as Rune Age in a competitive scenario.


While you can get spy removal, it seems to me that a perfectly valid strategy is simply to ignore spies, not go for total control VPs at the main sites, concentrate on other things, and hammer any troops they use the spies to put out.
 
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Anon Y. Mous
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maxlongstreet wrote:
Gregaria wrote:
I played my first game (of which there will be many) yesterday, and when my wife bought three "place a spy"-cards in a row I knew I had to either get spy-removal directly or more power to pay for it the hard way.

Definitely a deck-builder with more interaction in cards chosen compared to most competitors, though not as much as Rune Age in a competitive scenario.


While you can get spy removal, it seems to me that a perfectly valid strategy is simply to ignore spies, not go for total control VPs at the main sites, concentrate on other things, and hammer any troops they use the spies to put out.


If they're going heavy on spies, they're going to have ways to follow through on those spies. Ignoring them is a bad idea.
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Tim Mangan
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I've played the game several times now (marathon gaming group weekend) and I've come to the opinion that spies do create some game balance issues. I liken it to the "Loki" cards in Blood Rage. If you ignore spies and try to just do a different strategy better, then you will fall behind rather quickly. So at some point, if your opponent is gathering spies, you may need to "hate draft" spy cards just to keep your opponent from getting too far ahead.

A few more plays might have me revise my opinion, but being able to access the major sites without having to spend several turns deploying troops building a path is too efficient to ignore. Spies are just that powerful.

 
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