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Subject: 7 wonders or Tigris & Euphrates rss

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Cuitláhuac Del Valle Espinosa
Mexico
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Hi everyone. I have a gaming group of three. We have played (and maybe mastered) Ticket to Ride and Splendor. We love them but I want to introduce the group to more complex rules but I don't want to overwhealm them neither. I am considering 7 wonders and T&E as medium complex games. Which one do you recommend? I also considered Takenoko but I think it's too light and we won't advance in our gaming experience.
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Eric Gergotz
United States
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Out of those choices, 7 Wonders would be the easier game for people to learn. Tigris and Euphrates isn't super hard to understand, but there are some things that people get tied up on.

If I may suggest another title, try Five Tribes. If you want, take a look at my collection on here. I tend to have a bunch of easy-to-learn, hard-to-master games that might be perfect for your group.
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Stephen Cooper
United Kingdom
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If it's just those two, I'd go for Tigris and Euphrates, I think 7 Wonders would wear out its welcome fairly quickly at a 3 player count (and you'd never get to use a lot of the cards).
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Lucas Smith
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T&E is a little more difficult imo. Apart from that it's pretty hard to say because they are entirely different games.
(One of the great things about 7W is that it easiyl plays a lot (7) of people without getting too overly long.)
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Dave Lartigue
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T&E is a vastly better game, though it can be hard to get one's head around the rules.

Nearly everyone I game with burned out on 7W long ago.
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Kirk Thomas
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T&E is a bit more difficult but is the far better game, IMO. Give it a game or two to get the mechanics down, and a few more to really appreciate the strategies, and you'll have a game to play forever.
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Gláucio Reis
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T&E is much more complex than 7 Wonders and I wouldn't introduce it to a group that has played only TtR and Splendor. Another option, if you want a game with an ancient civilization theme, is Deus.
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chearns
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gmork13 wrote:
Hi everyone. I have a gaming group of three. We have played (and maybe mastered) Ticket to Ride and Splendor. We love them but I want to introduce the group to more complex rules but I don't want to overwhealm them neither. I am considering 7 wonders and T&E as medium complex games.

T&E is a big step up in complexity. However, fifteen years ago, people used to take that step all the time (there just weren't as many games out back then). So I feel confident that your group can do it too. Particularly if they aren't playing four new games every week. If your list of games played is very small (as it appears to be from your post), then you'll be able to give the game some attention and shouldn't have a problem getting the hang of it.
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'Bernard Wingrave'
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Wyoming
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How do people in your group react when someone blocks them in Ticket to Ride? My impression is that this kind of direct, visible interaction is not present in 7 Wonders, but it is definitely there (to an even greater extent) in Tigris & Euphrates. In T&E, you get two catastrophe tiles per game that you can plop down to destroy an opponent's stuff. T&E also tends to have a lot of conflict in terms of kingdoms merging and leaders getting removed from the board.

TL;DR: if your group can handle conflict, T&E is a good choice. If not, go with 7 Wonders.
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Klaus-Gunther Herzog
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chearns wrote:
gmork13 wrote:
Hi everyone. I have a gaming group of three. We have played (and maybe mastered) Ticket to Ride and Splendor. We love them but I want to introduce the group to more complex rules but I don't want to overwhealm them neither. I am considering 7 wonders and T&E as medium complex games.

T&E is a big step up in complexity. However, fifteen years ago, people used to take that step all the time (there just weren't as many games out back then). So I feel confident that your group can do it too. Particularly if they aren't playing four new games every week. If your list of games played is very small (as it appears to be from your post), then you'll be able to give the game some attention and shouldn't have a problem getting the hang of it.


One night I once introduced Tigris & Euphrates to a regular bi-monthly group whose regular go-to games were Catan and Rummikub. The reaction was "wow, this one really sucks you in." We were all engrossed way past the usual group cut-off point. Something like 2am I think.
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Simon Maynard
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bwingrave wrote:
TL;DR: if your group can handle conflict, T&E is a good choice. If not, go with 7 Wonders.

The best advice so far! thumbsup Not just giving your opinion over which is the better game but giving a meaningful criterion by which the OP might judge which is best for them.
 
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Ian Kissell
United States
Dallas
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T&E I think is a better game at 3, as I think 7 Wonders plays best with 4. However, T&E is clearly in the try before you buy category for me, as I think there are lots of people for whom it is not their cup of tea. I recommend maybe trying the app first.

Personally, T&E is just abstract to me, so I never got into it.
 
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Anthony Ferrise
Canada
Calgary
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If you're only playing with 3, I would recommend T&E - just keep in mind that it is a bit heavier than 7 Wonders (and the others you've played). If you're looking for a versatile game, much closer to the 'gateway' features of Ticket to Ride and Splendor - 7 Wonders is your game. I wouldn't play 7 Wonders with less than 4 though.
 
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Kyle
Canada
Toronto
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KissellMissile wrote:
T&E I think is a better game at 3, as I think 7 Wonders plays best with 4. However, T&E is clearly in the try before you buy category for me, as I think there are lots of people for whom it is not their cup of tea. I recommend maybe trying the app first.


Fixed your post.
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Dan
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T&E is best with 4, but 3 players is okay, too.
7 Wonders is best with at least 4 players, but really shines with 5-7 players.

I play a lot with 3 players, and our favourites are:
Catan
Alhambra
Stone Age
Galaxy Trucker
Castles of Mad King Ludwig

These are all gateway and gateway+ games.
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Anthony Ferrise
Canada
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djn1981 wrote:
T&E is best with 4, but 3 players is okay, too.
7 Wonders is best with at least 4 players, but really shines with 5-7 players.

I play a lot with 3 players, and our favourites are:
Catan
Alhambra
Stone Age
Galaxy Trucker
Castles of Mad King Ludwig

These are all gateway and gateway+ games.


Those are great recommendations for someone coming off Ticket to Ride and Splendor.
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corum irsei
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darthain wrote:
Quote:
T&E is a better game
Quote:
, but it's not for everyone.

Fixed your post.
Fixed your fix.
Given what the OP told us about his game group and their previous experience, T&E probably isn't a good recommendation.
 
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Klaus-Gunther Herzog
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I would definitely recommend the app, here for Android. No free trial/demo on this one, though.

Also here's an awesome session report to give a better idea on how T&E plays...

The Annotated Game (Part 1)

The Annotated Game (Part 2)

It's easy to dismiss this game because it's HARD to master. Giving it one try and deciding it's not for you would be like giving Karate or rollerblading a one-session trial. Or anything that takes some effort. T&E approaches Go in terms of depth. Most definitely Knizia's finest work.
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Cuitláhuac Del Valle Espinosa
Mexico
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Thanks for your advice. It appears that T&E is better but more complex that 7 wonders. Maybe we will try a less complex game that T&E before moving on. 7 wonders and (as someone suggested) Catan are my choices. But I'll also reasearch Five Tribes and maybe Istanbul. Thank you all for your answers.
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Scooperman wrote:
If it's just those two, I'd go for Tigris and Euphrates, I think 7 Wonders would wear out its welcome fairly quickly at a 3 player count (and you'd never get to use a lot of the cards).

I got tired of 7 wonders in under 10 plays. I have liked Tigris & Euphrates since it came out. It was my gateway game
 
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