$18.00
GeekGold Bonus for All Supporters: 93.84

6,052 Supporters

$15 min for supporter badge & GeekGold bonus
38.1% of Goal | 26 Days Left

Support:

Recommend
2 
 Thumb up
 Hide
15 Posts

Exceed: Red Horizon – Reese & Heidi vs. Vincent & Nehtali» Forums » General

Subject: Level 99 Disappointment rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Brett Leeson
United States
Minneapolis
Minnesota
flag msg tools
I'm going to hold off doing an actual review until I get a few more plays under my belt, but I wanted to share a few of my initial thoughts and see if anyone shared them.

This is the first time I've picked up a Level 99 game, opened it up, and not been blown away with the contents. I think BattleCon may have spoiled me. But Exceed was definitely a letdown.

First off, the game doesn't even pretend to offer a storage solution. I pulled the tray out and it's just a hunk of cardboard with flaps, with 3 sealed stacks of cards. Once you get those sorted out, they are straight up not going back in the game box again unless you want to sort them all back out every time you play.

Second, you had the cards for the movement track, the reference cards, and the character-specific and standard fighting cards, just piled in seemingly at random between the three stacks. Maybe I overlooked some clever arrangement, but it took us a while to break them down and sort everything into the four character decks and the other game elements.

Third, there was nothing provided for tracking life. No tokens, no life wheel, nothing. We actually overlooked the rule about having 30 life when we were setting up (more on that in a second) and couldn't find any other reference to how to track life, or how much you got, anywhere else in the book or in the two tutorial videos we watched. We finally found the rule and dug out some scratch paper, but it was disappointing that the game didn't provide anything.

Finally, the rulebook is awful. I saw somewhere they were bragging about how Level 99 finally did a '2 page rulebook.' I wouldn't have been too proud of that - it comes folded into a long rectangle the shape of the game box, and then unfolds into the size of a small poster. If you leave it unfolded it takes up an ungodly amount of space. If you fold it back down, you have to grab it and pull the thing back open every time you want to reference a rule.

It's the biggest, most unwieldy, awkward rulebook I think I've ever seen. I get that with the way they decided to package Exceed, in four small sets, a larger rulebook wouldn't have fit, and a smaller booklet would have had tiny print. This was undoubtedly the best solution available, but that doesn't make it less obnoxious. To me it just calls into question their decision to bundle the game this way instead of making it a single big box ala BattleCon, with a real rulebook and maybe some way of tracking life included. Maybe an actual fold out game board.

And yes, I do understand that once you pick up the rules you'll need to reference it less and less. That's true of any game, though, and doesn't make referencing this one any less awkward when you're starting out. And since the cards won't fit back in the box once they're sorted into decks, the whole reason for the rulebook being designed the way it is becomes moot and you have to figure out where to store that as well.

It honestly pains me to say it, because most Level 99 things have been a home run for me, but aside from the card quality - which is absolutely excellent (almost TOO heavy a card stock) - the components of this were a huge letdown for me. I hope this is a one-off design choice and not the way they do, say, future BattleCon releases, because I dislike almost everything about the way this set was handled.

Never mind that buying all four of the initial wave of characters is going to cost $100 and STILL not provide a storage solution, a way of tracking life, etc, making it a really poor return on investment, component-wise.

This one is setting itself apart from its sibling in all the wrong ways, in my opinion.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Dustin Crenshaw
United States
Shepherdsville
Kentucky
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
I agree with all those things.

I get what they were going for, to appeal to mainstream. But they could have still done it with a better box.

I think they should have did the summoner wars route. Like 4 unique fighters in a cheap box. Then a regular board game box version, with a board, and the 12 other fighters. That would have been much better for everyone.

At this point, I think the playmat is a must. It tracks the life and everything for you. Maybe someone will post the art up here and it will be something people can print out.

Rules are pretty badly laid out. I have no idea on earth why any designer sets out to make a "2 page rulebook" before designing a game. Such a stupid thing to do.

All that said though
THIS GAME IS AWESOME

My favorite game from lvl99 so far, it's not even close.
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Brett Leeson
United States
Minneapolis
Minnesota
flag msg tools
We only had time to play through the once, stumbling through the rules a little bit. I'm hoping with another couple of plays the game will click for me. We were doing a lot of rule consulting which, as I mentioned, is a surprising pain in the ass with the giant folded up rule sheet.

But yeah I'm just super disappointed with the route they took on this one. If there was one consistent thing I could say about a Level 99 game, it's that it generally came in a big box, stuffed with everything needed to play (and often more), giving you more than your money's worth in content.

That is just not the case here, not for me. I look at BattleCon, and for the cost of 3 of the 4 Exceed sets you get more than twice as many fighters, a game board, tokens, life trackers, a big beautiful rulebook. The step down in terms of how much your money is getting you for even just Devastation, versus four boxes of Exceed fighters, is a huge letdown.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Simon
United States
Fremont
CA
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
CrookedWook wrote:
The step down in terms of how much your money is getting you for even just Devastation, versus four boxes of Exceed fighters, is a huge letdown.


IIRC, they're actually discontinuing Devastation because of how expensive it is.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Aaron White
Australia
Bathurst
New South Wales
flag msg tools
Bennett from Brawl
badge
Slow and Thoughtful
mbmbmbmbmb
Hi,

I agree the box is no good for storage, I used my Yomi Round 1 and Round 2 boxes to store the decks with a custom insert.

I agree the fold out rule book is unwieldy.

I disagree with the rules being poorly laid out, it is concise and straight to the point. I do admit being familiar with BattleCON so it came to me quickly, would be interesting to get the thoughts of someone who played Exceed but never played Yomi or BattleCON. I also had downloaded and printed the PnP well in advance so had more time to digest.

However please be patient and get some games in. Exceed has become my favourite game. It is fun and you can do exciting things. The characters are awesome to play. I need to do a full review so I can properly share why I like it so much.

In summary, definitely Exceed had production issues. But underneath that there is one of the best Lvl99 designs ever.

3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Gregory Auld
United States
Santa Rosa
California
flag msg tools
Smile!
badge
Smile!
mbmbmbmbmb
DoubleH wrote:
CrookedWook wrote:
The step down in terms of how much your money is getting you for even just Devastation, versus four boxes of Exceed fighters, is a huge letdown.


IIRC, they're actually discontinuing Devastation because of how expensive it is.


Its a good business decision. Even though War and Fate are out, a lot of people assume that Devastation is the base box for BattleCON. This is problematic because it is intimidating for new players and constitutes a massive commitment out the gate. There's easily two or three expansions worth of stuff in that box. It's better to get more people to dip their toes into the game more easily and then let them expand from there once their hooked.

I think that this is what they were trying to do with Exceed, but they took the lessons they learned from Devastation and some of their other games maybe a little too far. It seems to me like Level 99 is trying to use Exceed to experiment with their business plan which isn't necessarily be a bad thing in the long term IMO even if some of us (including me) disagree with a number of their decisions along the way. I'll be interested to see if any changes are made to how Season 2 of Exceed is handled based on their experience with Season 1.

I loving the game btw.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Brett Leeson
United States
Minneapolis
Minnesota
flag msg tools
Rook96 wrote:
Hi,

I agree the box is no good for storage, I used my Yomi Round 1 and Round 2 boxes to store the decks with a custom insert.

I agree the fold out rule book is unwieldy.

I disagree with the rules being poorly laid out, it is concise and straight to the point. I do admit being familiar with BattleCON so it came to me quickly, would be interesting to get the thoughts of someone who played Exceed but never played Yomi or BattleCON. I also had downloaded and printed the PnP well in advance so had more time to digest.

However please be patient and get some games in. Exceed has become my favourite game. It is fun and you can do exciting things. The characters are awesome to play. I need to do a full review so I can properly share why I like it so much.

In summary, definitely Exceed had production issues. But underneath that there is one of the best Lvl99 designs ever.



To be fair, I didn't say (I don't think) the rules were 'poorly laid out.' I said that I hated the design of the rulesheet. Not necessarily how it was organized, just that it's a poster sized sheet that folds down to about the size of a ruler, and that unfurling it and then doing origami to get it closed back down every time I wanted to consult a rule was maddening.

I just personally found that constantly folding and unfolding it was a pain, all of the creases everywhere made reading it a bit of a chore, and would vastly have preferred a more traditional rulebook.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Brett Leeson
United States
Minneapolis
Minnesota
flag msg tools
Stylemys wrote:
DoubleH wrote:
CrookedWook wrote:
The step down in terms of how much your money is getting you for even just Devastation, versus four boxes of Exceed fighters, is a huge letdown.


IIRC, they're actually discontinuing Devastation because of how expensive it is.


Its a good business decision. Even though War and Fate are out, a lot of people assume that Devastation is the base box for BattleCON. This is problematic because it is intimidating for new players and constitutes a massive commitment out the gate. There's easily two or three expansions worth of stuff in that box. It's better to get more people to dip their toes into the game more easily and then let them expand from there once their hooked.

I think that this is what they were trying to do with Exceed, but they took the lessons they learned from Devastation and some of their other games maybe a little too far. It seems to me like Level 99 is trying to use Exceed to experiment with their business plan which isn't necessarily be a bad thing in the long term IMO even if some of us (including me) disagree with a number of their decisions along the way. I'll be interested to see if any changes are made to how Season 2 of Exceed is handled based on their experience with Season 1.

I loving the game btw.


That makes sense. I totally get it if they went a little overboard with some of their earlier productions. But man would I have loved to have seen Exceed shoot for something of a middle ground.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Aaron White
Australia
Bathurst
New South Wales
flag msg tools
Bennett from Brawl
badge
Slow and Thoughtful
mbmbmbmbmb
CrookedWook wrote:
To be fair, I didn't say (I don't think) the rules were 'poorly laid out.' I said that I hated the design of the rulesheet. Not necessarily how it was organized, just that it's a poster sized sheet that folds down to about the size of a ruler, and that unfurling it and then doing origami to get it closed back down every time I wanted to consult a rule was maddening.

I just personally found that constantly folding and unfolding it was a pain, all of the creases everywhere made reading it a bit of a chore, and would vastly have preferred a more traditional rulebook.

Fair enough, apologies I misinterpreted. Reading the above you are right, two page rules is not that great if the two pages are ginormous.

I think I inferred it from your comment on the life points. I had a similar thing at first with where the rules for sealed cards were. I knew it already, but someone asked and when I read the rules to reference it I could not find it (it was under setup).
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Brian
United States
California
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
The box was a disappointment for me also, but I threw everything into Ultra Pro Dual Deck boxes.

I asked Brad about the boxes initially during one of the unboxing update:

Brad wrote:
The main purpose of the box for EXCEED is to get the game to you in an economical way. We'll be thinking about a storage solution in the long term, but the suggested play style for this game is like Magic--keep your one of two favorite characters in a deck box in your bag, rather than carry the whole set everywhere. It's certainly something that you could easily do with a Plano Box too.


Source: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/level99games/exceed-car...

With that said... I wish the rulebook was more in portable way than it is right now, but I have the rules in PDF on my phone. But I think this game has become my all time favorite L99 game, yes even more so than Millennium Blades. MB is a fantastic game but this game is easily more accessible and plays significantly faster.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Dustin Crenshaw
United States
Shepherdsville
Kentucky
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
He's certainly wrong about just carrying a few fighters around. People will want choices, I want all of them to be there for those choices.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Simon
United States
Fremont
CA
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
CrookedWook wrote:
That makes sense. I totally get it if they went a little overboard with some of their earlier productions. But man would I have loved to have seen Exceed shoot for something of a middle ground.


I saw it as going towards Yomi's (individual deck) distribution, as that as the only storage for the characters for that was the tuckbox they came with and no way tracking life built in (and... difficulty in using the original box to store sleeved cards). And in keeping the competition with Yomi, these boxes are still theoretically a better deal, with a better price per character (and card). The fact that the tag rules ended up with 52 card decks just strengthened this impression, even if it's coincidence.

SeerMagic wrote:
He's certainly wrong about just carrying a few fighters around. People will want choices, I want all of them to be there for those choices.


The hope was that people would just carry around a deckbox to play with other people who brought their own stuff at the shop like with Magic and not to bring a box with selection for everyone. Some people certainly bring enough Magic decks to provide for a group, but it's certainly not as common as the guy who just brings a few.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Brian
United States
California
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
I actually want smaller deck boxes to hold each character in sleeves. The standard ones are like 80 cards but that leaves a lot of wiggle room, unless I double sleeve my cards. I'm currently using the Ultra Pro Dual Deck boxes but taking out the decks is a bit of a pain at times.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Riccardo Fabris
United Kingdom
London
London
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
I sleeved all my cards, as well as placing them in plastic baggies in order to ensure that they wouldn't mix in the boxes. Sleeved and in plastic baggies, there is no way to fit 4 fighters per box (at most you can fit three and it is a tight squeeze), so I placed all the fighters in a shoe box and forgot about the individual boxes. As a plus, I can also fit the playmat into the shoe box!
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Micah
United States
Texas
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Although I do agree that the decision to not provide a proper game box is a head-scratcher, one thing I *do* appreciate is that the only components in the game are cards. Battlecon is a bit of a nightmare to store because almost every character has both cards *and* tokens. With Exceed I've just rubber banded each fighter's cards together and stowed them all into a spare expansion box for Sentinels of the Multiverse. So even if I do have to provide something extra (box, rubber bands, some life counter mechanism), Exceed feels far less painful to store imo.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.