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Scythe» Forums » Rules

Subject: When Combat ends a game before all combat situations have been resolved rss

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JR Honeycutt
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Had an interesting situation arise today, resolved it with Jamey's clarification, so I promised I'd post in case others needed it.

Brian, playing white, has 5 stars.
JR (me), playing blue, has 4 stars.

JR takes the movement action, and moves two mechs from a space with a mine, to a tunnel, then from that tunnel to two other tunnel spaces with Brian's mech.

JR:
Mech 1: From (blue mine) to Tunnel 1 (unoccupied) to Tunnel 2 (initiate combat)
Mech 2: From (blue mine) to Tunnel 1 (unoccupied) to Tunnel 3 (initiate combat)

Given this scenario, the game must end after resolving combat - if Brian wins either, it's his 6th star, and it's my 6th star if I win both.

The rulebook states that if the game ends before all combats have been resolved, that "I must undo that portion of my move action, returning the unit to where it came from."

So there's a little ambiguity there - if Brian wins the combat with Mech 1, thus ending the game, where does Mech 2 go? Back to my Blue Mine (where its move action originated) or to Tunnel 1, the last space it occupied during the move action?

Jamey said that Mech 2 would go back to the most recent space it occupied during the move action (not before the move action), Tunnel 1, and as such I would control that territory at the end of the game.

That space was worth 3 coins, and I won the game 79-77 in a 2P game against Brian.

As always, thanks to Jamey for answering a random super edge case in the middle of the day when I'm sure he was busy with a million other things!
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Jason Brown
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Wow, I never encountered that or even thought of it before reading this, and I've logged 14 plays. Thanks for sharing!
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timbob1907 Tim
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Good to know! I haven't seen this come up yet either
 
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JR Honeycutt
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MAJBrown22 wrote:
Wow, I never encountered that or even thought of it before reading this, and I've logged 14 plays. Thanks for sharing!


I hadn't either - it set up this weird situation where it was better for Brian to intentionally lose both combat scenarios, because I was at 8 popularity, and both his mechs had 1 worker present.

I needed to end the game, because on his next turn he would have booted me from the factory, which would have been a 27-point swing (his popularity was 14, mine was 8), so it was worth my risking lowering my pop from 8 to 6 by winning both battles, which was a net result of -10 coins for me (adjusting for the two stars from the combats, plus the two territories controlled, plus the two resources I took from him).

He bid zero in both combats, forcing me to auto-win them, because doing so dropped my pop to 6 and made me lose the most points.

It was a very strange ending.
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Philip Morton
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jayahre wrote:
JR takes the movement action, and moves two mechs from a space with a mine, to a tunnel, then from that tunnel to two other tunnel spaces with Brian's mech.

JR:
Mech 1: From (blue mine) to Tunnel 1 (unoccupied) to Tunnel 2 (initiate combat)
Mech 2: From (blue mine) to Tunnel 1 (unoccupied) to Tunnel 2 (initiate combat)

Just to check, but did the mechs in this scenario ONLY go to Tunnel 1 so that they would fall back to it if they had to do this unwinding?

Also, by extension I assume this means that if you had to unwind the movement of a mech who was kicking workers out the door as he went, they would stay where they were (since that's really only even a question if the mech's movement has to unwind past where they got kicked out).
 
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GAF Blizzard
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Chrondeath wrote:
jayahre wrote:
JR takes the movement action, and moves two mechs from a space with a mine, to a tunnel, then from that tunnel to two other tunnel spaces with Brian's mech.

JR:
Mech 1: From (blue mine) to Tunnel 1 (unoccupied) to Tunnel 2 (initiate combat)
Mech 2: From (blue mine) to Tunnel 1 (unoccupied) to Tunnel 2 (initiate combat)

Just to check, but did the mechs in this scenario ONLY go to Tunnel 1 so that they would fall back to it if they had to do this unwinding?

Also, by extension I assume this means that if you had to unwind the movement of a mech who was kicking workers out the door as he went, they would stay where they were (since that's really only even a question if the mech's movement has to unwind past where they got kicked out).

This cannot happen because mech movement stops instantly when a worker is encountered, and it cannot move again.
 
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JR Honeycutt
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[q= This cannot happen because mech movement stops instantly when a worker is encountered, and it cannot move again.[/q]

1) Yes, I only moved them through the tunnel to trigger the fall-back space if needed.

2) Correct, all movement (character or mech) stops immediately if they enter a space with another player's worker(s), mech(s), and/or character.

--
I'm glad we came across this situation, as it was interesting and led to a deeper understanding of the rules.

I'm a little sad about how our game ended, because it was a nice tense two-player game that ended with both of us spending 20 minutes counting points on the board to figure out if we needed to win or lose combat.

It was Brian's first game, and he played tremendously well!
 
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Philip Morton
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GAFBlizzard wrote:
Quote:
Also, by extension I assume this means that if you had to unwind the movement of a mech who was kicking workers out the door as he went, they would stay where they were (since that's really only even a question if the mech's movement has to unwind past where they got kicked out).

This cannot happen because mech movement stops instantly when a worker is encountered, and it cannot move again.

"Out the door", not "off the space". I'm talking about the moving mech dragging your own workers with it and dropping them off in the spaces it passes through. If the unwinding movement had resulted in the mech going back to its origin space, there would be a question whether dropped-off workers would unwind with it, since they were also moved as part of that unit's movement, but since the mech only goes back one step, the workers presumably stay.
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JR Honeycutt
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ah, yes - that's correct. Fortunately, good game design means this isn't an issue!

Seriously, Jamey, thank you for all your hard work in Scythe. It's a success at every level, and incredibly rewarding to play.
 
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Bryan Cole
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Just to clarify this (I've only played 2 games and I want to be sure I've got it right!): JR's two mechs are moving to two different end spaces to initiate combat, right? I.e. to fight with two white mechs on different locations.

Your top post was a little confusing to me as you described both target-spaces as "Tunnel 2" leaving me unclear if these were two different spaces or the same space. My understanding is that if you were moving two mechs onto the same space, that would be a single 2-vs-1 combat which could only grant you a single start if you win.
 
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JR Honeycutt
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bryancole1 wrote:
Just to clarify this (I've only played 2 games and I want to be sure I've got it right!): JR's two mechs are moving to two different end spaces to initiate combat, right? I.e. to fight with two white mechs on different locations.

Your top post was a little confusing to me as you described both target-spaces as "Tunnel 2" leaving me unclear if these were two different spaces or the same space. My understanding is that if you were moving two mechs onto the same space, that would be a single 2-vs-1 combat which could only grant you a single start if you win.


I edited the original post to clarify (now Tunnel 3) - thanks for pointing this out!

Yes, they went to two different tunnel spaces.
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