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Millennium Blades» Forums » General

Subject: Mitigating last player advantage? rss

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Joshua C
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Please don't hurt me! I'm new to the game, but one of the first things I always look at in a game is advantages and disadvantages of player order. And as much as I love this game, it does seem like there's a pretty big advantage to going last.

The first player to go can't Clash or Flip anyone on their first turn, whereas the last player has an opportunity to Clash with and Flip everyone. Also on the 6th turn, the last player is safe to play a really risky card because there's no one to go after them and disrupt them, whereas the first player has the highest risk of having their turn 6 disrupted.

I feel like there should be some mitigation for this. I've played games with far less "turn order advantage" that still offered mitigation. Maybe give some small amount of money extra depending on how far up in line you are? Would 1 extra dollar per spot be enough? So in a 4 player game the last player gets 30, then next guy gets 31, then 32 and the first player gets 33. That's enough for one extra Core card.


I'm not sure if it's as big of a deal after the first round. The player who won goes first, which makes it kind of good to handicap them.
 
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Nathan Ehlers
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Don't forget that first player is set by the previous tournament's winner. So it's a purposeful disadvantage.
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Joshua C
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But for the first tournament it's chosen essentially at random (last opened a booster pack, meh). You don't need to do it for every tournament. Also there's no logic to why the player to the previous tournament winner's right should get a huge advantage in the next tournament (because he now gets to go last). He could've been second place for all you know, and now he gets a big leg up. The last place player could be directly to the winner's left and be shafted for no reason.

I really think a small amount of money would still give the last player an advantage, but would just tighten things up ever so slightly.
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Justin
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I'd like to throw in the counterpoint that there are plenty of cards that punish you for going last.

Most notably, cards that affect a players hand or cards that affect cards as they come into play can completely destroy the last player.

Know that your opponent's strategy relies on a game-breaking effect like Inept Robotic Assistant Cascade? Drop Burnizard as your first card and knock it out of his hand before he even gets a chance to play it.
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Joshua C
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Good point. Overall though I do feel there's more cards that are better as last player and good as first player (like ALL Clash or Flip cards). I'll try to do a tally on the Core Set later.
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Esteban Vasquez
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If you really feel that the last player has a really good advantage just determine the turn order of the next tournament by total VPs or last tournament. First player = Most VPs, Second Player, Second most VPs... etc.

You don't have to be always counter clockwise.
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Jyri Järvinen
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It's worth mentioning that going first also has advantages. Playing a mean top effect as your first card might royally screw the other players over. Maybe add in a way to skip a turn and you could be taking 70 points away from all other players. And they had no way of countering this because you went first.
 
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Paul Case
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Noutaja wrote:
It's worth mentioning that going first also has advantages. Playing a mean top effect as your first card might royally screw the other players over. Maybe add in a way to skip a turn and you could be taking 70 points away from all other players. And they had no way of countering this because you went first.


Yeah, there was a thread on bgg about a month back complaining that the winner of a tournament shouldn't get to go first, because they felt going first is a huge advantage! Specifically, a nasty top effect combined with the mousetrap deckbox made for a brutal turn 1 (and rest of the tournament).

IMO, some decks want to be earlier in the turn order, so they can drop Top or protection effects before opponents can respond, and other decks want to go last, so they can play their more vulnerable pieces at the end without having to dedicate card slots and accessories to protecting them. Part of the strategy is building your deck to take advantage of your position in the turn order.

Also, if a player feels that going last is particularly important to winning the tournament with their deck, "pass your turn" accessories or the "cosplay set" deckbox (which provides an extra tableau slot) can get you there regardless of who won the previous tournament.
 
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