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Yomi (second edition)» Forums » Strategy

Subject: basic tips needed! rss

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Dom Hiob
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So, I finally got Grave and Jaina after German publisher Pegasus came out with their Starter Set.

So far, I've been toying around with the solo mode to get a feeling for the game. To be honest, I've been struggling, especially playing Jaina (me) vs. Grave (automated opponent).

Here's the reason. By now, I've done some reading up on the basic points about Jaina and the way you're supposed to block early in order to build your hand and whatnot (all on the Fantasy Strike forums). I've started looking at what the automated opponent has in his hand and what's in his discard, to get a feeling of what the chances of him playing an attack/block/counter/throw are.

Yet, by sheer luck (or so it seems), the automated opponent has beaten me more often than not. Which somehow feels strange. Random plays should't this easily beat thought, should they?
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Dennis
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First make sure the Jaina tipps are actually for the second edition. She is the character that changed by far the most, so most of the old advise is no longer applicable.

Second, a single card in Yomi is a bit like a single hand in Poker. There's quite a bit of luck involved in winning the single action, but much, much less in winning the actual game.
The trick, especially for a newbie is less trying to "figure out" what the opponent will play and more about making sure to win big on the victories and losing little on the defeats.

You can't outsmart the Bot, just as you can't skill yourself into an all-in win pre-flop in the poker game.
But you can have good card management to make sure you get the most out of each combat win. Focus on that first. The Yomi (ie: reading your opponent) is the next step, not the first.
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Kevin H.
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Agree with the above. I think the best way to view the game is as a hand management game, with the guessing acting as a pseudo-randomizer. Don't focus on the guessing, focus on hand management and trying to get your hand into the best shape possible given the game state (opponent's hand size and likely contents, contents of discards, life totals, etc.).
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K
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As an aside, I don't think there's much point in the "solo" mode. It doesn't really feel like a real game, and doesn't really prepare you for the same game as playing VS an opponent.

If you really want to play "Solo" just to learn cards and mess around with stuff you'd be better off playing against the AIs in the digital game.

As far as your physical cards go, forget all about the solo mode and find a sparring parter to try the game out with IMO
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Dom Hiob
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RindFisch wrote:
The trick, especially for a newbie is less trying to "figure out" what the opponent will play and more about making sure to win big on the victories and losing little on the defeats.


So what does that translate to functionally with Jaina?

Here's some thought of mine, please correct me where I go wrong.

I want to use Jaina's aces late in the game. That way, she can recover them through her unique ability.

For the same reason, I want to play the Aces as an attack rather than as a combo following a throw/counter.

However, if I'm unlucky, my attack will just get blocked (2 chip damage to opp, 4 damage or 2 cards down for me), or, worse, countered (lots of damage to me). I just don't see how I can make sure to "win big"/"lose little"? I'm putting out the Ace as an attack. If I win, I'll win big if I have those other Aces in my hand. If I lose... anything can happen.
 
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Alex Brown
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Yep, that's such great advice - you need to understand where your character is more efficient at dealing damage.

My valuation of Jaina would begin with:

8! <1.0 attacks - this means you have options in many of the situations other characters are based around (Zane, Gloria, Ven).

Lots of combo points - don't try to land a straight or play for KD, instead be ready to attach your straight to a throw or K/J starter. This makes her more vulnerable to Jokers than some characters.

My default with Jaina is to Block early to build hand and try to throw in K/J where the will win or tie. Always buyback.

As your hand progresses, mix in some throws when you can follow up for large damage or a straight Ace. I think the 7 is best as a throw most often (definitely against Grave).

As you reach the endgame, you are playing for A+AAA/Dodge into A+AAA in various guises.
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Alenros
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As stated above, you better play the online AI or players than the solo to get a better representative idea of the game.
For example if your plan with Jaina at the start is blocking (sensible) you should know your opponent will try to throw. Surprise him with an attack.

But I'm really recommending the guides at fantasy strike, those are collected advice who have been tried and evolved:
The very basics:
http://www.fantasystrike.com/guide/index.php/Jaina_(Yomi)

The next steps:
http://www.fantasystrike.com/forums/index.php?threads/charac...

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Aaron White
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One tip that works for me is not to waste your hand.

For example, if you are playing Jaina with four Aces in hand and you win combat with Red Dragon, do you pump with all four Aces?

If it does not kill, I would not. I would prefer to hit with the one Ace, then save the rest to control combat for future turns. Jaina can control the flow of the game by always having fast attacks available. Combine this with being able to buy cards back and you can build a dominating hand. Use this hand to prevent your opponent accessing their high damage options. Sure they might dodge into a throw, but this is nothing compared to eating a full combo. Plus dodge/throw is two cards to your one attack.

Also a reminder you can buy back cards used to pump such as on your Queen.

Hope this helps.

Edit: Save your Jokers for Rewind Time. You have lots of fast attacks and ways to get Aces, so use your Joker to prevent your opponent dodging into their own Ace attacks.
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Dennis
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DomHiob wrote:
So what does that translate to functionally with Jaina?


A key part of Yomi is knowing not about what your opponent will do, but more about what your opponent can do. This has two parts.
One: Know your opponents character. Know his card options and its speeds. This will tell you which of your attacks are "safe" to clashes and which are not.
Two: Know which of those options your opponent actually has in their hand. This obviously doesn't work vs. the bot, but is incredibly important vs. human opponents. You get a lot of information about your opponents hand composition over the course of the game, you just have to pick up on it.
For example, if your opponent blocks with a 9, he probably doesn't have a 10. If he throws with an 8, he doesn't have a 7. If your opponent just powered up, he now has his Ace attack. If Grave starts attacking with a 2, he probably has AAA in hand.
There are a lot of things like that, which aren't true 100% of the time, but often enough that you need to be aware of them.

General uses for that information:
- If your opponent doesn't have a strong, single attack, his dodges aren't scary and your fast attacks are safe.
- If you have a joker in hand, any attack faster than your opponent's quickest option is 100% safe.
- If your opponent doesn't have a strong throw follow-up or a strong mix-up game, his throws aren't that scary and your blocks/dodges are safer.
- If you have the fastest attack in the match-up, your opponent is less likely to attack for fear of clashes.
- If your throw speeds are better than your opponent's, he is less likely to throw for fear of clashes.

Evaluate your opponent's and your own options and preferably play those that favor you. That way, even if you lose, you lose less than you gain if you win.

Jaina specific tipps:
- Jaina is the high risk / high reward character. Making a few mistakes and suddenly being dead is part of her playstyle, so your problems will be more exaggerated with her than they would be with any other character. Her HP claims a high-ish 85, but you will burn through a moderate amount of that yourself, so it's deceptive. She is actually quite squishy.
- You should rarely use your Aces "naked" (that is, as your combat card). This is true for most characters, actually. The risk of losing them is often too high. There are situations where it's warranted and the more experienced you get, the more often they'll come up, but at the beginning, don't do it. Follow up every non-jockered attack or dodge with them, instead. Aces in your hand are only there to do damage, so use them. You can always get them back, even if not with your ability, then with the generic power-up mechanic.
- Block often early to build your hand (good tip for most characters), attack often from the midgame on. Also, your midgame comes way earlier than most other characters midgame, as you need less cards to kill thanks to your recursion ability.
- Corrolary: Don't build up your hand too much. You only need as much damage as it takes to kill your opponent. Cards left over after that in your hand are wasted. You'd have been better off starting the offensive a few turns earlier. The quicker switch from early- to mid-game is one of Jainas main strengths.
- Try to avoid using your last Q before you can buy it back, but don't avoid using Qs alltogether before. Your opponent needs to fear that 0.2 speed.
- Follow up throws with damage. KK(KK), AA, 56J or even QTT, if you have multiple. Your mix-up game isn't stellar, so the damage is worth more.
- Try to get 20+ damage out of every single offensive combat win. Jaina can do that consistently (and needs to to shorten the game).
- When in doubt, attack. It's generally your safest option. Doing quite a bit of block damage and buying your card back means even attacking into a block is less damaging to you than to any other character. And smoldering embers makes dodges rarer.
- Almost always buy back everything you can, including pump cards. Even if you don't end up with a relative life gain for using a pump card and buying it back, you shorten the game in general, which favors you.
- Always pump with 10s first. You want them in the discard.
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Dom Hiob
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thanks for all the great hints, everyone!

Just as a small note: I'm specifically going for the solo mode right now because of two reasons. 1) I'm running a Linux machine and am having trouble getting Yomi online to work. 2) (more important) I'm trying to learn valuation rather than reading. Once I'm able to consistently beat a randomly playing opponent, I'll then move on to opponents who strategize.
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Dennis
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A good idea. As I hinted at, getting good at card management and knowing which would be the best card to play (ie: valuation) is the best thing to learn learn first anyways.
And if you get good enough in valuation, you will beat the bot almost always (barring extreme bad luck). That's the main (and only) thing it teaches.
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