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Subject: insulting muslims is not o.k. Mr Trump rss

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jeremy cobert
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So the news cycle today is about a Muslim man on stage praising Hillary Clinton and the Democrats for sending his child into war. Trump obviously says something stupid and the media jumps on Trump.

The interesting thing here is how quickly Bill Clinton's speech at the DNC insulting Muslims got over looked.

Quote:
Bill Clinton attempted to reach out to Muslims on Tuesday and ended up slapping them.

Former president Clinton said during his Democratic convention speech, “If you’re a Muslim and you love America and freedom and you hate terror, stay here and help us win and make a future together, we want you.”

Clinton probably meant nothing insulting or harmful toward Muslims with this statement.



Twitter disagreed:

Quote:
Dawud Walid @DawudWalid

Bill Clinton has nerve saying American Muslims can stay in here if we do such & such. My Muslim ancestors got here before 1776. Take a hike.


Quote:
Mehdi Hasan

@mehdirhasan

Sorry @billclinton, my Muslim American daughters are part of the 'us'. They're not a separate category (or subgroup) https://twitter.com/CNN/status/758134821298249730


Quote:
William Lafi Youmans @wyoumans

Trump's hard anti-Muslim line allowed the Clintons to move into a relatively moderate Muslim-baiting position. http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/07/bill-cli...


Quote:
Laila Lalami @LailaLalami

Bill Clinton's use of "If you're a Muslim" followed by "and you love America" suggests that if you're the former, you must prove the latter.


http://rare.us/story/bill-clinton-made-muslim-americans-real...
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Bill Clinton phrased it badly but was trying to be inclusive. Trump is just a buffoon.
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Boaty McBoatface
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whac3 wrote:
Bill Clinton phrased it badly but was trying to be inclusive. Trump is just a buffoon.
I also love the way as man saying "look my child died for this country, I am an American patriot" is misrepresented as "praises Clinton for killing his son".

No the media do not jump on Donny for saiyng something stupid, they jump on his for saying something ignorant and dangerous.
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Donald
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Surprisingly, a little context put a different light on it

Quote:
And so I say to you, if you love this country, you’re working hard, you’re paying taxes and you’re obeying the law and you’d like to become a citizen, you should choose immigration reform over somebody that wants to send you back.

If you’re a Muslim and you love America and freedom and you hate terror, stay here and help us win and make a future together. We want you.



http://time.com/4425599/dnc-bill-clinton-speech-transcript-v...

almost at the bottom.

EDIT: Can we add this to the "Libruls did it too so it's OK" list?
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slatersteven wrote:
whac3 wrote:
Bill Clinton phrased it badly but was trying to be inclusive. Trump is just a buffoon.
I also love the way as man saying "look my child died for this country, I am an American patriot" is misrepresented as "praises Clinton for killing his son".

No the media do not jump on Donny for saiyng something stupid, they jump on his for saying something ignorant and dangerous.


When Donald Trump lied about the Thousands celebrating on 9/11 that was an attempt to whip up religious hatred against a religious minority. Trying to dismiss that as merely "something stupid" is the height of willful ignorance
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Boaty McBoatface
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Kumitedad wrote:
slatersteven wrote:
whac3 wrote:
Bill Clinton phrased it badly but was trying to be inclusive. Trump is just a buffoon.
I also love the way as man saying "look my child died for this country, I am an American patriot" is misrepresented as "praises Clinton for killing his son".

No the media do not jump on Donny for saiyng something stupid, they jump on his for saying something ignorant and dangerous.


When Donald Trump lied about the Thousands celebrating on 9/11 that was an attempt to whip up religious hatred against a religious minority. Trying to dismiss that as merely "something stupid" is the height of willful ignorance
Yes, I think wilful is the salient point.

At worst (and this requires you to ignore context) Clinton (who is not a candidate) said something badly worded, Donny says things that he means (it's his great claim to governance after all, he says it like it is). Sometimes (as in the case of "all Mexican immigrants being criminals" we can put it down to just not engaging brain before opening mouth. But other things "we will get Mexico to pay for the wall" show a dangerous lack of a grasp on reality. But then we get to the racist lies he shouts, and these are not "misspeakings" or "mistakes" they are blatant bigotry, and pretty ill informed bigotry at that.
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jeremy cobert
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slatersteven wrote:
At worst (and this requires you to ignore context) Clinton (who is not a candidate) said something badly worded, Donny says things that he means


So in your mind, Donald thinks that all Mexicans are criminals ? But Bill thinks that all Muslims are "us" even though he said they were not.

It's interesting that you can selectively pick who's words ring true based on political ideology.
 
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Boaty McBoatface
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jeremycobert wrote:
slatersteven wrote:
At worst (and this requires you to ignore context) Clinton (who is not a candidate) said something badly worded, Donny says things that he means


So in your mind, Donald thinks that all Mexicans are criminals ? But Bill thinks that all Muslims are "us" even though he said they were not.

It's interesting that you can selectively pick who's words ring true based on political ideology.
Quote:
Sometimes (as in the case of "all Mexican immigrants being criminals" we can put it down to just not engaging brain before opening mouth.


It's interesting that you can selectively pick what words you reply to based on political ideology.
 
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jeremycobert wrote:
slatersteven wrote:
At worst (and this requires you to ignore context) Clinton (who is not a candidate) said something badly worded, Donny says things that he means


So in your mind, Donald thinks that all Mexicans are criminals ? But Bill thinks that all Muslims are "us" even though he said they were not.

It's interesting that you can selectively pick who's words ring true based on political ideology.


If the tables were turned you'd say this was a stupid thing to criticize someone for and clearly not what they meant.
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Donald
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jeremycobert wrote:
But Bill thinks that all Muslims are "us" even though he said they were not.


Wat?

Bill Clinton wrote:
If you’re a Muslim and you love America and freedom and you hate terror, stay here and help us win and make a future together. We want you.


How about better sentence structure?

"We want you if you’re a Muslim and you love America and freedom and you hate terror. Stay here and help us win and make a future together."

Does that it more clear? Where are you getting your interpretation from?

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Chad Ellis
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So Trump explicitly suggesting that the reason a woman stood silently by her husband as he spoke about their dead son is that "maybe" and "you tell me" that she's not allowed to have a voice/opinion after wanting a blanket ban on all Muslims entering the nation (and remember it took him a while to agree that citizen Muslims would be an exception) and you think that's pretty much the same as Clinton explicitly welcoming Muslims and other immigrants but using awkward wording that can be interpreted in a negative light?

You're absolutely perfect. I find it impossible to tell if you're that stupid or that dishonest.
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Chris
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If a Dem misspeaks, it's ok. If Trump misspeaks he is an idiot and literally Hitler.
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Moshe Callen
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galad2003 wrote:
If a Dem misspeaks, it's ok. If Trump misspeaks he is an idiot and literally Hitler.

He can't literally be Hitler as Hitler is dead. What Trump has done is crossed the line established by Hitler's precedent that it doesn't and shouldn't matter if he means what he says. He should not be allowed to have any degree of power lest he attempt to act on any of it.

As to your point, he lost the right to any benefit of doubt a long time ago.
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Boaty McBoatface
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galad2003 wrote:
If a Dem misspeaks, it's ok. If Trump misspeaks he is an idiot and literally Hitler.
No, it's when he says it clearly (such as "I saw it") that makes him an ill informed a bigot.

If someone says "I know this to be true" that is not the same as saying "I want this to be true".

Clinton's choice of words were poor, but he made no claim to those words being a fact. He did not say then as a policy statement or statement of intent.

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galad2003 wrote:
If a Dem misspeaks, it's ok. If Trump misspeaks he is an idiot and literally Hitler.


Would you like to explain how Trump "Mis spoke" when he talked about the thousands of Muslims celebrating on the streets of New Jersey on 9/11
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jeremy cobert
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Kumitedad wrote:
galad2003 wrote:
If a Dem misspeaks, it's ok. If Trump misspeaks he is an idiot and literally Hitler.


Would you like to explain how Trump "Mis spoke" when he talked about the thousands of Muslims celebrating on the streets of New Jersey on 9/11


So he got it right, but got his numbers wrong , is that your contention ?



ZOMG , Trump is so stupid with numbers, he must be like Hitler !!!
 
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jeremycobert wrote:
Kumitedad wrote:
galad2003 wrote:
If a Dem misspeaks, it's ok. If Trump misspeaks he is an idiot and literally Hitler.


Would you like to explain how Trump "Mis spoke" when he talked about the thousands of Muslims celebrating on the streets of New Jersey on 9/11


So he got it right, but got his numbers wrong , is that your contention ?



ZOMG , Trump is so stupid with numbers, he must be like Hitler !!!
If I say "I literally own thousands of games" and it turns out I own 8 what does that tell you about my honesty or ability to observe?

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Andrew Bartosh

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jeremycobert wrote:
ZOMG , Trump is so stupid with numbers, he must be like Hitler !!!


Well, I mean if you want to stir up hate and promote violence against a specific group, misrepresenting them that grossly is a pretty good way to do it.
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jeremycobert wrote:
Kumitedad wrote:
galad2003 wrote:
If a Dem misspeaks, it's ok. If Trump misspeaks he is an idiot and literally Hitler.


Would you like to explain how Trump "Mis spoke" when he talked about the thousands of Muslims celebrating on the streets of New Jersey on 9/11


So he got it right, but got his numbers wrong , is that your contention ?



ZOMG , Trump is so stupid with numbers, he must be like Hitler !!!


You do realize there is no video of any kind showing any celebrations here correct. That this "evidence" just talks of a few being taken in for questioning. This is idiotic horseshit even for you

At what point are you going to realize you are justifying religious bigotry and hatred? Or is it ok because the target are Muslims
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Chad Ellis
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galad2003 wrote:
If a Dem misspeaks, it's ok. If Trump misspeaks he is an idiot and literally Hitler.


Don't be Jeremy.

Trump didn't misspeak when he called for a blanket ban on Muslims. He repeated it and then put it on his campaign website. He didn't misspeak when he suggested that she wasn't allowed to have an opinion.

There are certainly examples of people jumping on Trump for careless wording, but this isn't that.
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AndrewRogue wrote:
jeremycobert wrote:
ZOMG , Trump is so stupid with numbers, he must be like Hitler !!!


Well, I mean if you want to stir up hate and promote violence against a specific group, misrepresenting them that grossly is a pretty good way to do it.


And it is a lot like Hitler. Which makes GOP as naive as Franz von Papen. Advocating war crimes (attacking terrorist's families) also reminds me of Hitler. Germans made a mistake in 1932. Americans does not have to make the same mistake.

Unfortunately, I don't see any solution to USA's problems, other than a revolution against the oligarchs ruling the country through lobbyists. I think the biggest problem the US is facing is that wealth is so unevenly distributed. The poor stays put, while the rich get richer. I don't see how Trump is going to change that. I don't think he wants to, since he is one of those who has benefited from the uneven distribution.

As a non-american, I am more concerned that Trump is threatening world peace, by making it clear that he may not honor treaties. So we are entering a period of unstable alliances and distrust. Sort of like the time before WWI. Trump and his voters are not the only ones to blame for this. There are paranoid, xenophobic, ignorant people in other countries too.
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galad2003 wrote:
If a Dem misspeaks, it's ok. If Trump misspeaks he is an idiot and literally Hitler.


I think there has to be some form of punishment, yeah.
 
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Kumitedad wrote:
You do realize there is no video of any kind showing any celebrations here correct. That this "evidence" just talks of a few being taken in for questioning. This is idiotic horseshit even for you


Maybe the accounts were all fabricated so that Trump could say it in the future. Diabolical on Trumps part !

Kumitedad wrote:
At what point are you going to realize you are justifying religious bigotry and hatred? Or is it ok because the target are Muslims


Yeah, when we can get s large a % of the Christians,Jews,Atheists or any other nutter ideology to claim that's it o.k. to kill non believers and then act on it, I will gladly call them out as well.

You're on the wrong side of history in this regard.
But feel free to defend it oh brave Ostrich brigade !
 
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jeremycobert wrote:
Kumitedad wrote:
You do realize there is no video of any kind showing any celebrations here correct. That this "evidence" just talks of a few being taken in for questioning. This is idiotic horseshit even for you


Maybe the accounts were all fabricated so that Trump could say it in the future. Diabolical on Trumps part !

Kumitedad wrote:
At what point are you going to realize you are justifying religious bigotry and hatred? Or is it ok because the target are Muslims


Yeah, when we can get s large a % of the Christians,Jews,Atheists or any other nutter ideology to claim that's it o.k. to kill non believers and then act on it, I will gladly call them out as well.

You're on the wrong side of history in this regard.
But feel free to defend it oh brave Ostrich brigade !
What has any of this got to do with Donny claiming he actually saw something?

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jeremycobert wrote:
But feel free to defend it oh brave Ostrich brigade !

Ostrich brigade? That must be the GOP, thinking they can control a rabid and xenophobic demagogue. Sort of like Franz von Papen.
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