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Burgle Bros.» Forums » Rules

Subject: Two questions... rss

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Brandon Held
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Hi BGG peoples,

I have two questions:

1.) If a guard is moving towards an alarm, if the guards gets to the alarm sand still has movement left (for example, guard moves 4 and the alarm is two spaces away)-does the guard's movement end when he reaches the tile with the alarm or does the guard continue to move another 2 spaces towards their new destination?

2.) If players are on different floors, do guards move on each of their floors or just the floor of the current player?

I'm quite certain these questions have already been answered, but I'm having a problem finding the previous threads that answered them.
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Reverend Uncle Bastard
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I don't know about answers in the forums, but the answers are definitely in the rulebook

1 - Move Guard: "When the guard reaches his destination, reveal the next patrol card and place the Guard die on the newly indicated location. If the Guard has not used up all of his movement, continue to move him toward the new destination."

2 - Move Guard: "Only the Guard on your current floor will move."

Great game, enjoy!
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Brandon Held
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I've only played it once, but I thoroughly enjoyed it. Thanks for the quick response.

I was fairly certain about question 2 (you confirmed what I thought), with question 1 I wasn't sure whether or not it was the same situation with alarms as it was for their normal movement. It probably just made more sense in my head that a guard would stop in a room where they heard an alarm and inspect, as opposed to the actual game rules.
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Naomi Ooooooooo

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Have a great time... I messed up that second rule for a while. My fault not the rule book. Great game.
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Jim Bolland
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#1 - Here is some verbosity to clarify how alarms work:

The guard clears the alarm and keeps moving - in your example, 2 more spaces). If there are more alarms on the floor, the guard will move toward the next nearest alarm on that floor. If there are no other alarms on the floor, the guard will revert to moving toward the location shown on the guard's current destination card draw a new destination card.

NOTES:

Do not turn up a new destination card for the guard until the guard first clears ALL of the alarms on that floor and then finally reaches the location shown on the guard's current destination card.

The guard's die stays on the location shown on the guard's current destination card. Rooms with alarms tokens are detours the guard must take on the way to the location shown on the destination card.


#2 - Only the guard on the same floor as the current player moves.

Edit: As mentioned, I didn't have this right! I struck the text above to make sure I don't mislead any future reader of this thread.

According to the rules, once an alarm goes off, the guard will never continue on to the current destination card. A new card is drawn as soon as the last alarm is cleared. Not only that, the guard's die should be moved to the nearest alarm to indicate that is the guard's new destination. I need to play this more and get the rules right.
 
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Reverend Uncle Bastard
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loon wrote:

Do not turn up a new destination card for the guard until the guard first clears ALL of the alarms on that floor and then finally reaches the location shown on the guard's current destination card.


This is almost correct, but not quite. According to the rules:

"If a second Alarm is triggered before the first is turned off, the Guard will go toward the closest one (players choose if tied), then proceed to the next closest one. Once all Alarms on the floor are turned off (no alarm tokens), draw a new Patrol card."


So once an alarm (or alarms) is activated, the guard heads to the closest active alarm and turns it off. Once the alarm is turned off he will head to the next closest alarm and turn it off. Once all alarms are off, you draw a new patrol card immediately.
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Jarad Bond
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loon wrote:
The guard's die stays on the location shown on the guard's current destination card. Rooms with alarms tokens are detours the guard must take on the way to the location shown on the destination card.

I could be *really* dense, but I've [in the past] re-read the alarms section in the rulebook at least three times and I'm pretty sure it says that you move the guard's destination die to each newly triggered alarm. It sounds like you're advocating you don't do that?

This is how I understand it:

1. Alarm is triggered. Move the destination die to it.
2. Second alarm is triggered. Move the destination die to the new alarm. to the closest alarm. Let's say that is Alarm #2.
3. Guard reaches Alarm #2. Since Alarm #1 is still going, move destination die to that instead (closest alarm still going).
4. Guard reaches Alarm #1. Since there are no more alarms, a new patrol card is drawn.

 
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Reverend Uncle Bastard
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loon wrote:
The guard's die stays on the location shown on the guard's current destination card. Rooms with alarms tokens are detours the guard must take on the way to the location shown on the destination card.



This is also incorrect. The very first sentence in the "Alarms" section is as follows:

"When an Alarm is triggered, place both an Alarm token and the Guard’s movement die on the Tile where the Alarm went off."
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Reverend Uncle Bastard
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logris wrote:
loon wrote:
The guard's die stays on the location shown on the guard's current destination card. Rooms with alarms tokens are detours the guard must take on the way to the location shown on the destination card.

I could be *really* dense, but I've [in the past] re-read the alarms section in the rulebook at least three times and I'm pretty sure it says that you move the guard's destination die to each newly triggered alarm. It sounds like you're advocating you don't do that?

This is how I understand it:

1. Alarm is triggered. Move the destination die to it.
2. Second alarm is triggered. Move the destination die to the new alarm.
3. Guard reaches Alarm #2. Since Alarm #1 is still going, move destination die to that instead (closest alarm still going).
4. Guard reaches Alarm #1. Since there are no more alarms, a new patrol card is drawn.



You are not dense, that is exactly how it is described in the rules. Loon's advice was entirely incorrect.
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Kevin B. Smith
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logris wrote:
This is how I understand it:

1. Alarm is triggered. Move the destination die to it.
2. Second alarm is triggered. Move the destination die to the new alarm.

But when the second alarm is triggered, if the guard is closer to the first alarm than the second, the destination die remains on the first alarm here, right? Then after the nearest alarm is dealt with, the guard proceeds to the one closest from there.
 
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Reverend Uncle Bastard
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peakhope wrote:
logris wrote:
This is how I understand it:

1. Alarm is triggered. Move the destination die to it.
2. Second alarm is triggered. Move the destination die to the new alarm.

But when the second alarm is triggered, if the guard is closer to the first alarm than the second, the destination die remains on the first alarm here, right? Then after the nearest alarm is dealt with, the guard proceeds to the one closest from there.


Correct.
 
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Jarad Bond
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Good discussion, everyone!

I was not understanding this rule correctly. I've noticed this rulebook is very hard to read. At the start of the alarms section, it says:

"When an alarm is triggered, place both an Alarm token and the Guard's movement die on the Tile where the Alarm went off."

That's pretty straightforward, but is contradicted later. At the end of that paragraph, we have the second instruction:

"If a second Alarm is triggered before the first is turned off, the Guard will go toward the closest one (players choose if tied), then proceed to the next closest one."

I had originally thought this was a clarification of what the guard would do after reaching an alarm, since that was what the topic was at the time of this sentence... shake

It is a similar situation to the setup, where Tim Fowers clearly instructs you to shuffle all your 48 cards together into piles of 16 each and then "Go Get 'Em Tiger!" However, in the very back of the instruction book, he tells you to remove some of them from each pile.
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Tim Fowers
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I have a new version of the rulebook(hopefully better) for the new print run, if you guys want to look it over I can share it.
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Jarad Bond
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Sure! I would read through the new rules and give you feedback, although I kinda know them now so I might not catch everything I would if I were trying to learn the game from scratch.
 
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Reverend Uncle Bastard
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Fubeca wrote:
I have a new version of the rulebook(hopefully better) for the new print run, if you guys want to look it over I can share it.


Would be happy to give it a proofread! GM me if you still need eyes on it.
 
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fortheloveofdice
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Another volunteer here.
 
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Tim Fowers
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here is a link: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B2MYuVG_ZCKnUHBpMVFHaUZwVk...
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I Jac
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Love the new rulebook. It's a lot clearer. It clarifies all the questions I had when I first started playing.

I also discovered I've been playing a rule incorrectly. After cracking a safe I've been putting an alarm token on the safe tile (old rules said "silent alarm" is set off). I don't need to do that anymore! That should make things a little easier. Haha.

Great game. Love it. One of my favorites.
 
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Jarad Bond
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The rulebook is much improved. In particular, I like the step-by-step setup instructions and the reference at the back of the book. Can you sell some copies of the new version of the rulebook separately, please? I'd love to purchase the new one when you're through.

I read all the rules, but I only skimmed the reference section so far - I may look at it more carefully later. Here are my suggestions:

Page 3:
Ready Guards. Step 1. Indicate that there are 16 patrol cards per floor, and that you should not include the lost visual cards.

Page 5-6:
Move to a tile. Clearly define "Adjacent" and don't use it to talk about tiles that are merely touching with a wall in between; I.E. You may move to any adjacent tile. An adjacent tile is a tile touching your tile (not diagonally) without a wall in between. Change the wording in the glossary for Secret Door to say it allows you to move into a Secret Door tile that would be adjacent if it weren't for the wall in between. The definition will really help with the tools and events that talk about adjacent tiles.

Alarm Tiles. You successfully move to the alarm tile, but you might trigger an alarm...

Hack a computer. ... discard a Hack token to cancel an alarm before the Guard die is moved.

Page 7-8
Move the Guard. The Guard should always face the direction opposite to the tile they entered from.

Destination. [more than one path] ... the Guard takes the first one in a clockwise/counterclockwise direction, starting from the Guard's left.
(Edit: Alternatively, the Guard chooses equally short paths in the following order from the Guard's perspective: Left, Front, Right, Rear)
(Extra edit: I may have the whole thing wrong - remove the language for "starts with the left" if you just mean "the path that is clockwise")

"most clockwise" seems the furthest along the clock (9:00, 6:00, 3:00, 12:00). Or maybe that is that what you mean? I was taught that the guard would choose the first in a clockwise direction (9:00, 12:00, 3:00, 6:00). It would be clearer to say the first path in a clockwise or counterclockwise direction, starting with the Guard's left.

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Kevin B. Smith
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logris wrote:
"most clockwise" seems the furthest along the clock (9:00, 6:00, 3:00, 12:00). Or maybe that is that what you mean?

I always found the "clockwise" terminology intensely confusing here. Would it be simpler to just drop all that, and say "If the guard has 2 paths to his destination, he will take the left fork." ?
 
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Jarad Bond
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peakhope wrote:
logris wrote:
"most clockwise" seems the furthest along the clock (9:00, 6:00, 3:00, 12:00). Or maybe that is that what you mean?

I always found the "clockwise" terminology intensely confusing here. Would it be simpler to just drop all that, and say "If the guard has 2 paths to his destination, he will take the left fork." ?

I agree that it takes some parsing and searching and scratching heads to get the guard figured out. The guy teaching it to me really didn't know what to make of it either, at first. When rubber hit the road, he couldn't explain how it really worked and I had to read the sections a couple times before I realized we had to preserve the guard's facing; it made a lot more sense after that.

The "left fork" is ambiguous, however. What about when it is front and back in a hallway? That's why I was trying to say, "Starting at the guard's left and continuing clockwise, take the first of the equally short paths that you come across." Left fork is a good mnemonic, however (in all but a couple cases). I'm thinking a diagram would work wonders, but there might not be enough room.

An alternative would be simply to say, "The Guard will choose from two or more equally short paths in the following order: Left, Front, Right, Rear"

 
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Kevin B. Smith
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logris wrote:
The "left fork" is ambiguous, however. What about when it is front and back in a hallway?

If the guard is facing the destination as the crow flies, then I'm hard-pressed to think of an example where the "left fork", or more precisely the "leftmost fork" would be wrong.

EDIT: Perhaps the key is that I don't care which way the guard was previously heading or facing. Rotate him to face the destination, and then figure out which path to take.
 
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Jarad Bond
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Good discussion! I think it all depends on what Tim Fowers is after. You could have the guard take the West, North, East, South (absolute on the floorplan), or roll a die to decide, or remember which way the guard is facing.

You could re-orient the guard and have the guard take the left fork as well, but it seems like you could still end up with front and back situations (the front path winds more, so the back path is equidistant) - people could argue which one is more left. I normally wouldn't worry about it, but that could mean the difference between the guard taking a route that runs over one of the Burgle Bros and not. Those situations pretty much ruin a cooperative game vs. AI for me.

Now, if it were the intent to create a situation that would be resolved randomly or by Player choice, that's a different story, but I expect that is not the intent here.

I'm not trying to put down any ideas here - they all have pros and cons (one of them being how easy it is to explain and implement the rule), but I do want a very clear, objective condition that is not open to interpretation if I'm pitting wits against the game instead of a human.
 
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Kevin B. Smith
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Let's continue this discussion here: Which path does the guard choose?
 
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Jim Bolland
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My apologies for getting this rule completely wrong. I edited my post. I hope the edits are right!
 
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