$18.00
GeekGold Bonus for All Supporters: 76.1

5,174 Supporters

$15 min for supporter badge & GeekGold bonus
32.6% of Goal | 28 Days Left

Support:

Recommend
9 
 Thumb up
 Hide
48 Posts
1 , 2  Next »   | 

Tyrants of the Underdark» Forums » General

Subject: Shame on Gale Force Nine/WotC! rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Greg Lott
United States
Little Elm
Texas
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
I own this game, and I enjoy it... but I gotta say something here:

This production values in this game or horrendous, and in today's board gaming industry, this level of attention to quality of components is really unforgivable.

Seriously, guys, you should be ashamed. Do yourselves a favor and take a look at Blood Rage. That's what you get on average for $75 nowadays. TotU has low quality cards that must be sleeved, placed with an insert that cannot hold sleeved cards. Cheap little miniatures and terrible graphic design which is virtually the same as all the D&D mini boardgames, which were bad when they came out, but look even worse by todays standards. The board is a mess, and unappealing looking, and the art ranges from decent to uninspired to just terrible. Take a look at the Insane Outcast for one of THE worst examples of poor art.

Ascension, a game you can get retail for $40, is totally kicking your collective a$$e$!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yo3uxqwTxk0

16 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Paul Newsham
United Kingdom
Halifax
West Yorkshire
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
The game does look pretty basic for the price, but the cards "must be sleeved"? They're not the best quality, but this is not a game that lives or dies on hidden information. I would consider The Resistance to be a game where the cards must be sleeved, as being able to identify a card from its back makes that game unplayable. Not so much this, or any other deck builder I've played.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chris Ruf
United States
Acworth
Georgia
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
I agree that the game is a little pricey for what you get at MSRP. But the components are fine. Not great, but also not Alea or Mayfair bad. This could have been a cube and chit game easily. I give much more weight to game play than anything. Components are whatever. I don't even mind the components in Castles of Burgundy.

But I do care about graphic design and to a lesser extent, art. The art is okay, but not of the level I would expect from WotC.

The graphic design is functional, but super bland. The game is purple on purple on purple. Why not make the frame of the cards different colors based on faction? Or make the card type symbols colored? Or have a more interesting back to the cards? Or not choose dark gray and dark blue as player colors? I get this is the drow, but how much purple do we need?

I love the game though. Super fun and mean with 2p. It's a bit of a shame the price, art, and graphic design are going to limit the appeal. I think this is another slam dunk of a game from the designers of Lords of Waterdeep.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jean-Philippe Thériault
Canada
Montreal
Quebec
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
I want to live in a universe where Blood Rage MSRPs at 75$...

I think the price tag is a bit high for the box contents (though that's a lot of little plastic shields) but OTOH it's literally the best deckbuilder I've played to date (and I'm a big fan of the genre so I'm swimming in those in my collection), so, you know... I'll allow it. If I was responsible for MSRP i would have tagged it at 60$, knowing it would show in the 40s$ at online retailers.

Now, if they charge that sort of price (40-50ish $) on the inevitable expansions and there's only like two half-decks in them and no plastic or cardboard, I might start getting more mad.

And look, I love Ascension but this game just blows it out of the water, and Ascension has no actual board or minis, so you know this would cost more by definition.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
T C
United States
Unspecified
Unspecified
flag msg tools
My group loves the game. Production could be better, but it's not enough to detract from the game play for us. Personally I dislike Ascension's art a lot more than this game's. I also find this game play to be better over all. I wouldn't pay $75 for it, but at $50 online I felt like I got a fair deal.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Anthony Faber
United States
Chicago
Illinois
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmb
I don't think this is a disgrace on the level that the OP makes it out to be, but I'll agree with everyone here that the production is bland, and the game overpriced at $75 MSRP. To me, the 'MINION' card backs are the worst example - looks like a prototype.

I think there may be a few reasons for the issues. One is that I'll bet GF9 paid a lot for the license, and felt they had to price high to make money on this. GF9 may have had most of its attention on Star Trek: Ascendancy, which looks to be far and away the company's most important board game release of the year, and maybe ever.

I also don't think GF9 does really great production on any of its games. I think the strength of GF9 is on the design side - they've made some excellent games from IPs where people were skeptical about what would come out of them - Spartacus, Sons of Anarchy, Homeland, etc.

But all their games look a little bland to me. I don't think eye-popping graphic design is their strength. Which makes it a bit strange to me that Wizards had them produce this game. If they wanted GF9 to design the game, that would have made sense. But just to produce it? Bit of a head scratcher to me.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jean-Philippe Thériault
Canada
Montreal
Quebec
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
I would like to remind people that there are 200 little plastic shields and 20 spies in there. 6 different sculpts.

Maybe the game could have been cheaper if they could have assured a high print run (since plastic minis molds are the expensive thing and they're a fixed cost, you can really drop MSRP if you can be sure that you'll sell a lot of copies), which means it would likely have been a good candidate for a Kickstarter. But that doesn't seem to be the sort of thing WotC goes for.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jason Williams
United States
Midlothian
Virginia
flag msg tools
mbmbmb
I don't understand why people think the cost of a boardgame is just based on components.

The value of a boardgame is not just the components inside, it's the fun and entertainment value of the game.

People pay $60 for various videogames, some good, some bad, some not worth even picking up.

Every board game is not going to be the same price, but if this game gives you quite a lot of enjoyment and gets to the table over and over again. Hell, I'd drop $100 on it for the fun that some friends and I could get out of it.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Destrio Dai
United States
Hawaii
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
I am going to assume it is due to wotc and licensing as I don't think other gf9 games have this issue. Production choices are also cost and profit related but also maybe they decided that was the best for function. One things for sure though if it were a KS game we would've seen more bling.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chris Ruf
United States
Acworth
Georgia
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Destrio wrote:
I am going to assume it is due to wotc and licensing as I don't think other gf9 games have this issue. Production choices are also cost and profit related but also maybe they decided that was the best for function. One things for sure though if it were a KS game we would've seen more bling.


I wonder if KS has caused unrealistic expectations of what we should be getting for our money. I don't know how responsible it is for the uptick in component quality from non-KS games. Or is it simply that more games are being produced and competition has caused the component quality increase. Both? Not that there aren't bad quality KS games, but the high profile ones now have a certain expectation of quality.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Destrio Dai
United States
Hawaii
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Well KS is still a mixed bag in terms of quality but KS and retail compete for the same dollars and customers. Even a game retailing that much from other publishers might include better components or a cheaper price.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Driss
United States
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
What exactly is it about the board people don't like? It looks absolutely beautiful to me.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Michael Chumak
msg tools
Sindriss wrote:
What exactly is it about the board people don't like? It looks absolutely beautiful to me.


Seconded. Clean, legible graphic design and a beautiful board. The cards feel a bit on the thin side, but that's my only complaint.

—Michael
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Tom Tjarks
United States
Crowley
Texas
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
I like it. Sometimes the board needs to be functional and simple. The best art was on the cards. I liked the design and the components. They were all functional and clear. 70 is a bit high, but not so bad I won't buy it.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Deb Cutler
United States
Cross Plains
Wisconsin
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
XDarkAngelX wrote:
I want to live in a universe where Blood Rage MSRPs at 75$...


You do basically live in that world. MSRP on the Blood Rage core set is $79.99.

http://cmon.com/#/product/blood-rage/blood-rage

I found all the plastic in the game to be good. Any bigger and the board would have to be much larger. The card stock was horrible. The Drow are dark characters which might explain color.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Brian M
United States
Thornton
Colorado
flag msg tools
designer
mbmbmbmbmb
I agree with the OP here. There's nothing terrible about the components, but there's just a lot underwhelming.

* The cards are very thin and don't have a good feel to them.
* Sleeve them, and the insert becomes useless (despite the box being big enough to accommodate sleeved cards.
* Most of the areas on the board are just big black or white spaces, with no hint of art or of what is there.
* There are several "white" spaces that appear to be black spaces due to being empty circles on a black background. Not hard once you know about it, but it was confusing at first.
* The player boards were slightly warped right out of the box, and wobble around as you put cards on or off of them. Just low quality thin cardboard; should have thicker OR thinner - either way would be better!
* Player tokens look cheap and...well...plasticy. Viewed from the back, they look very odd.

Nothing by itself major, but the whole production just comes across as cheaply done.
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Brian M
United States
Thornton
Colorado
flag msg tools
designer
mbmbmbmbmb
Quote:
I wonder if KS has caused unrealistic expectations of what we should be getting for our money.

The game that I felt most inclined to compare Tyrants to was Trains; both deckbuilders with a board.

Tyrants has 200 pieces, while Trains has 114.
Tyrants has about 300 cards, while Trains has 500.

The Trains board is double sided, while Tyrants is not.

Trains is about half the price, and the card quality and overall look of the game is much higher.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Brandon Holmes
Canada
Caledonia
Ontario
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
I can buy trains for $53 CAD or this game for $63 CAD. I'm not sure if the price of Trains has gone up, but that is what it is going for right now. So if you are comparing it game to game it seems like a fair price. Basically I am paying $10 for the licencing cost which is fine with me. That said, if this game was $53 I would have bought it already. Once games start going for $40+ I really start to examine the value they bring.

Overall I wish it was lower but this is nothing like what Asmodee, FFG etc. are doing. At least I can understand the price and it's not too far from what I was expecting.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Brian M
United States
Thornton
Colorado
flag msg tools
designer
mbmbmbmbmb
Quote:
I can buy trains for $53 CAD or this game for $63 CAD.

My check was finding trains for $30, but on closer looks it appears to be a clearance price, so the price difference may not be as big as I thought.

The quality difference is quite noticeable though.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Brandon Holmes
Canada
Caledonia
Ontario
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Yeah I havent seen the quality so I can't comment on that.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
J H
United States
Missouri
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
I wanted to demo this at Gen Con, but I took a look at the board and was immediately turned off by the graphic design. I never sat down for the demo. I still may try the game at some point, but I was disappointed in the game's initial impression.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chris Ruf
United States
Acworth
Georgia
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
I HIGHLY recommend people give this game a shot even if they are underwhelmed by the graphic design. I am also underwhelmed by the graphic design, but I think the game is great. I certainly like it more than Trains. And I don't hate Trains.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Roland Sanchez
United States
Texas
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Take a look at the Dungeon Command series.

D and D license - check
Linen finish board - check
Amazing artwork on every card - check
Painted miniatures - check
Price?

$25-$30 depending on vendor
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jean-Philippe Thériault
Canada
Montreal
Quebec
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
ath3ist wrote:
Take a look at the Dungeon Command series.

D and D license - check
Linen finish board - check
Amazing artwork on every card - check
Painted miniatures - check
Price?

$25-$30 depending on vendor


Died an ignominous death because it wasn't a sustainable business model? - check
6 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Greg Lott
United States
Little Elm
Texas
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
GammaGoblinz wrote:
I don't understand why people think the cost of a boardgame is just based on components.

The value of a boardgame is not just the components inside, it's the fun and entertainment value of the game.

People pay $60 for various videogames, some good, some bad, some not worth even picking up.

Every board game is not going to be the same price, but if this game gives you quite a lot of enjoyment and gets to the table over and over again. Hell, I'd drop $100 on it for the fun that some friends and I could get out of it.


No one said anything about value. I own the game, after all. The problem is that while I expect the manufacturer to make a cut after sale, an $80 price tag on a game that component-wise should be $40 makes for a greedy cut and a short-sighted business model. As stated by someone else previously Trains is a GREAT comparison. It's MSRP is $60, and while that STILL feels high, at least the game looks great on the table and the art style is aesthetically pleasing and LOOKS professional. It's drow, I get it... it's supposed to be dark. But the frames and overall design of everything (cards, board, player boards) is amateurish at worst, lazy at best.

And FFS, if your cards are so crappy we have to sleeve them can you add a millimeter to the insert so that it still works after sleeving! This is a shout out to ALL publishers! Why have they not figured out yet that this matters?!
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
1 , 2  Next »   | 
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.