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Mansions of Madness: Second Edition» Forums » General

Subject: You can't (easily) proxy the conversion kit. rss

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Peter Johnsson
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Just a heads up for those who were anticipating being able to proxy investigators and monsters.
The app is all or nothing when it comes to first edition stuff (so you need the tiles).
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Máté Kovács
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Re: You can't proxy the conversion kit.
Here comes the printer
 
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Re: You can't proxy the conversion kit.
Yeah, I just saw that after playing around with the app. Thankfully, I just secured a copy of first edition for $40, so I'll at least have a bit more to throw into the mix.

Another thing to note: there seems to be only four scenarios.
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Peter Johnsson
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Re: You can't proxy the conversion kit.
dojogrant wrote:
Yeah, I just saw that after playing around with the app. Thankfully, I just secured a copy of first edition for $40, so I'll at least have a bit more to throw into the mix.

Another thing to note: there seems to be only four scenarios.

Yeah, I also bought a copy recently, but I payed quite a bit more.
Would so love to find Call of the Wild also.

The four scenarios at least seem quite different to me, which is great!

Now I just need to secure a copy of the second edition, if I only could get it early. ninja Oh, well, waiting some more days won't probably kill me.
 
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Mariano Rico
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Re: You can't proxy the conversion kit.
dojogrant wrote:

Another thing to note: there seems to be only four scenarios.


Have you checked the duration of the fourth one?? They even recommend you to play with your tablet plugged in. Insane!
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Re: You can't proxy the conversion kit.
Acererak wrote:
dojogrant wrote:

Another thing to note: there seems to be only four scenarios.


Have you checked the duration of the fourth one?? They even recommend you to play with your tablet plugged in. Insane!


I did notice the insane hour count, yes! I hope that means the three more "sane"-length scenarios are very good, since those will come out more often.
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Johannes Benedikt
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Re: You can't proxy the conversion kit.
Wow, what a bummer.

Good luck with that product and value proposition FFG:
Do you want to buy a game where ~2/3s of the content you bought is unusable unless you buy an unavailable product with an MSRP of 70$? Yeah the game is just 100$ and you can play it 4 times. After that we will mix up the rooms a bit, so it won't be excactly the same... but you won't have to learn anything new.

This game has gone from instant 1st day buy to "will only buy this second hand for not more than 50$", so I guess I have to wait a bit before everyone who gets this has played it 8 times and has seen everything there is.

What a stupid way to reboot such a promising IP.
What a stupid way to damage FFG's good reputation.
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Jacek Deimer
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Re: You can't proxy the conversion kit.
DA_Maz wrote:

Do you want to buy a game where ~2/3s of the content you bought is unusable unless you buy an unavailable product with an MSRP of 70$?


Excuse me, but I don't understand what your talking about. Could you elaborate more ?
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Re: You can't proxy the conversion kit.
DA_Maz wrote:
Wow, what a bummer.

Good luck with that product and value proposition FFG:
Do you want to buy a game where ~2/3s of the content you bought is unusable unless you buy an unavailable product with an MSRP of 70$? Yeah the game is just 100$ and you can play it 4 times. After that we will mix up the rooms a bit, so it won't be excactly the same... but you won't have to learn anything new.

This game has gone from instant 1st day buy to "will only buy this second hand for not more than 50$", so I guess I have to wait a bit before everyone who gets this has played it 8 times and has seen everything there is.

What a stupid way to reboot such a promising IP.
What a stupid way to damage FFG's good reputation.


First of all, the first edition had the same problem. Any scenario-based game has the potential to play out similarly. I used the app to create the first scenario twice, to see what changed (I only clicked a few things). Different starting items, completely different mansion layout (I included 1st edition tiles, since I will have those). A similar scenario was playing out, but what I don't know is how many variations there are as you continue to explore. In the first edition, you had a few choices at each key milestone. Each physical card costs money, so it's quite possible there are more choices (made by the app AI) in the app than in the base game, as it's cheaper to just program the game to have more choices than to produce physical cards.

I get the feeling that with varied tiles, items, characters, and AI choices, it's going to be the same scenario, yes, but play out very differently.
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Johannes Benedikt
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Re: You can't proxy the conversion kit.
Reid666 wrote:
DA_Maz wrote:

Do you want to buy a game where ~2/3s of the content you bought is unusable unless you buy an unavailable product with an MSRP of 70$?


Excuse me, but I don't understand what your talking about. Could you elaborate more ?


Technically FFG designed 24 investigators and 57 monsters for this game and they sell all of them to you in the base game.

However out of this content that you purchase, you can't use 16 investigators and 33 monsters unless you also own the first edition of Mansions of Madness.
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Chris J Davis
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Re: You can't proxy the conversion kit.
Reid666 wrote:
DA_Maz wrote:

Do you want to buy a game where ~2/3s of the content you bought is unusable unless you buy an unavailable product with an MSRP of 70$?


Excuse me, but I don't understand what your talking about. Could you elaborate more ?


For some reason, he thinks that the Conversion Kit comprises 2/3rds the contents of the base game box.
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Re: You can't proxy the conversion kit.
These are just a handful of tokens and a couple of sheets, I think. And they are an olive branch to 1E owners.
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Johannes Benedikt
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Re: You can't proxy the conversion kit.
dojogrant wrote:
DA_Maz wrote:
Wow, what a bummer.

Good luck with that product and value proposition FFG:
Do you want to buy a game where ~2/3s of the content you bought is unusable unless you buy an unavailable product with an MSRP of 70$? Yeah the game is just 100$ and you can play it 4 times. After that we will mix up the rooms a bit, so it won't be excactly the same... but you won't have to learn anything new.

This game has gone from instant 1st day buy to "will only buy this second hand for not more than 50$", so I guess I have to wait a bit before everyone who gets this has played it 8 times and has seen everything there is.

What a stupid way to reboot such a promising IP.
What a stupid way to damage FFG's good reputation.


First of all, the first edition had the same problem. Any scenario-based game has the potential to play out similarly. I used the app to create the first scenario twice, to see what changed (I only clicked a few things). Different starting items, completely different mansion layout (I included 1st edition tiles, since I will have those). A similar scenario was playing out, but what I don't know is how many variations there are as you continue to explore. In the first edition, you had a few choices at each key milestone. Each physical card costs money, so it's quite possible there are more choices (made by the app AI) in the app than in the base game, as it's cheaper to just program the game to have more choices than to produce physical cards.

I get the feeling that with varied tiles, items, characters, and AI choices, it's going to be the same scenario, yes, but play out very differently.


What you say about the first edition is true, but it was considerably cheaper.

Also this game is first and foremost a narrative expirience and I think even if the mansion looks different and you have other items and monsters, the tension is kind of gone when I know how the story of the scenario unfolds.

Even Descent, with a much less prominent narrative aspect suffered from this and playing a quest a second time felt much less exciting than playing it for the first time, yet Descent comes with 16 scenarios and it's cheaper.
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Re: You can't proxy the conversion kit.
dojogrant wrote:
These are just a handful of tokens and a couple of sheets, I think. And they are an olive branch to 1E owners.


That's the way I interpret it. But I was aware that for some folks this practice is a kick in the nuts, a frequent reminder that not all content of the box will be playable if they're not in the posession of a boardgame released 5 years ago.

When Descend 2nd Edition was released, the conversion kit was sold seperatly. Now, with the release of RtL and all the Heros&Monster-Packs it's quite obsolete. FGG can't please everyone.

Quote:
Even Descent, with a much less prominent narrative aspect suffered from this and playing a quest a second time felt much less exciting than playing it for the first time, yet Descent comes with 16 scenarios and it's cheaper.


Yet, the "narrative aspect" of both Descent and MoM is just the icing on the cake. Nice to have, good if it's done well, but the fun in playing comes mainly from other aspects. Heck, even the outcome of investigation differs in MoM2, depending on how many successes you roll. That's a level of investigation MoM1 could not perform. I dig it.
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Mariano Rico
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Re: You can't proxy the conversion kit.
DA_Maz wrote:
Reid666 wrote:
DA_Maz wrote:

Do you want to buy a game where ~2/3s of the content you bought is unusable unless you buy an unavailable product with an MSRP of 70$?


Excuse me, but I don't understand what your talking about. Could you elaborate more ?


Technically FFG designed 24 investigators and 57 monsters for this game and they sell all of them to you in the base game.

However out of this content that you purchase, you can't use 16 investigators and 33 monsters unless you also own the first edition of Mansions of Madness.


The base set of 2nd ed gives you 8 investigators and 24 monsters, exactly the same as 1st ed base set did. 24 map tiles in 2nd ed base set compared to 15 of 1st.

I understand you guys are upset because you cannot use the 1st ed stuff right out of the box, but those of us who purchased the whole set in the first place didnt get it for free either. We will enjoy more stuff because we have spent way more than you just did. Fair trade, dont ya think?
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Re: You can't proxy the conversion kit.
DA_Maz wrote:


What you say about the first edition is true, but it was considerably cheaper.

Also this game is first and foremost a narrative expirience and I think even if the mansion looks different and you have other items and monsters, the tension is kind of gone when I know how the story of the scenario unfolds.

Even Descent, with a much less prominent narrative aspect suffered from this and playing a quest a second time felt much less exciting than playing it for the first time, yet Descent comes with 16 scenarios and it's cheaper.


One thing we are forgetting is that, one of the things that makes MoM different is that the winning condition is hidden, and it is only uncovered as the investigation goes forward. In the first edition, there were multiple victory conditions the keeper would choose from. I'm sure that's the case here.

At worst, it's exactly as varied as MoM (except for the tile randomization, which at least to me, is still a big deal). At best, there are more points of deviation buried in the app than were allowed by a keeper in 1st edition, which will mean more variance.
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Johannes Benedikt
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Re: You can't proxy the conversion kit.
bleached_lizard wrote:
Reid666 wrote:
DA_Maz wrote:

Do you want to buy a game where ~2/3s of the content you bought is unusable unless you buy an unavailable product with an MSRP of 70$?


Excuse me, but I don't understand what your talking about. Could you elaborate more ?


For some reason, he thinks that the Conversion Kit comprises 2/3rds the contents of the base game box.


see for yourself

base game:
24 monster-tokens and -miniatures
8 investigator-cards and -miniatures

conversion kit:
33 monster-tokens
16 investigator-cards

While it's not really 2/3s it's effectivly more than half of the gameplay content.

33 tokens is not "a handfull of tokens" that's easily 1 to 2 complete cardboard sheets (FFG is selling 1 cardboard punchboard sheet for Runebound for 5$).

FFG could've (and still can) easily made this content available for everyone by being able to select the conversion kit in the app, but the app only lists the first edition products to select, which means you have to own the tiles of the first edition to use what's in the conversion kit that you are forced to buy with the base game.

This is precisly why I feel so bad about this product, because it would cost FFG literally nothing to make the conversion kit usable by everybody by copying some code and deleting a section from it... takes like 10-30mins.

Acererak wrote:
DA_Maz wrote:
Reid666 wrote:
DA_Maz wrote:

Do you want to buy a game where ~2/3s of the content you bought is unusable unless you buy an unavailable product with an MSRP of 70$?


Excuse me, but I don't understand what your talking about. Could you elaborate more ?


Technically FFG designed 24 investigators and 57 monsters for this game and they sell all of them to you in the base game.

However out of this content that you purchase, you can't use 16 investigators and 33 monsters unless you also own the first edition of Mansions of Madness.


The base set of 2nd ed gives you 8 investigators and 24 monsters, exactly the same as 1st ed base set did. 24 map tiles in 2nd ed base set compared to 15 of 1st.

I understand you guys are upset because you cannot use the 1st ed stuff right out of the box, but those of us who purchased the whole set in the first place didnt get it for free either. We will enjoy more stuff because we have spent way more than you just did. Fair trade, dont ya think?


I really don't get this sentiment. Either way those of us who don't own the first edition won't have access to the miniatures and maptiles and the maptiles are a big deal. Isn't this fair enough to you?

Do first edition owners only feel treated fairly if the ones who didn't buy first edition now have to buy content they can't use, because it's locked by the app?
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Re: You can't proxy the conversion kit.
DA_Maz wrote:

FFG could've (and still can) easily made this content available for everyone by being able to select the conversion kit in the app, but the app only lists the first edition products to select, which means you have to own the tiles of the first edition to use what's in the conversion kit.

This is precisly why I feel so bad about this product, because it would cost FFG literally nothing to make the conversion kit usable by everybody by copying some code and deleting a section from it... takes like 10-30mins.


FFG could

1> alter the app as you suggest
2> make the map tiles available as print-and-play files
3> make an expansion box that is just the minis, monster tokens and map tiles

the game hasn't even officially released yet. GenCon hasnt happened yet.
At least wait a week before you start screaming the sky is falling.
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Chris J Davis
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Re: You can't proxy the conversion kit.
In fact, didn't I read elsewhere on the boards that someone had emailed FFG about this, and they got a reply stating that FFG were possibly releasing the components through other channels in the future?

But sure - throw away the Conversion Kit. I'm sure you won't need it.
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Re: You can't proxy the conversion kit.
Even if they sold the conversion kit separately I would be willing to bet the price of the 2nd Edition would still be the same - $100 seems to be FFG's standard price for their big box games now. Also, would they then need to have three separate conversion kits - one for the base game and one for each of the two expansions?

What they've done seems to be the best overall option as it lures 1st Edition owners into purchasing the new edition. And this means better sales which is then more likely to lead to more content being produced. I don't think there's much doubt that FFG will release miniatures packs eventually for those missing monster and investigator minis.
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Re: You can't proxy the conversion kit.
DA_Maz wrote:

I really don't get this sentiment. Either way those of us who don't own the first edition won't have access to the miniatures and maptiles and the maptiles are a big deal. Isn't this fair enough to you?

Do first edition owners only feel treated fairly if the ones who didn't buy first edition now have to buy content they can't use, because it's locked by the app?


I obviously feel fairly treated because I can use the stuff I purchased in the first place without having to spend more. Not because you guys cant use it, that doesnt make it more or less fair to me.

The maptiles, to me, arent that big a deal anyway. An extra, maybe. Some topping on the ice cream. I am a sucker for the story and the investigation and you and me, sir, are going to be playing the exact same thing on that regard.

But hey, dont you worry. Eventually we will meet again and be friends, since I am pretty sure FFG will follow a very similar road than they have done with Descent and then you and me will have to buy the whole thing over again. And then you might laugh at me if that pleases you, when I can throw away all my useless miniatures and tiles together with your so much hated kit.
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Re: You can't proxy the conversion kit.
stevelabny wrote:
DA_Maz wrote:

FFG could've (and still can) easily made this content available for everyone by being able to select the conversion kit in the app, but the app only lists the first edition products to select, which means you have to own the tiles of the first edition to use what's in the conversion kit.

This is precisly why I feel so bad about this product, because it would cost FFG literally nothing to make the conversion kit usable by everybody by copying some code and deleting a section from it... takes like 10-30mins.


FFG could

1> alter the app as you suggest
2> make the map tiles available as print-and-play files
3> make an expansion box that is just the minis, monster tokens and map tiles

the game hasn't even officially released yet. GenCon hasnt happened yet.
At least wait a week before you start screaming the sky is falling.


Yeah you are right.

I'm passionate about board games and I like to express my criticism and feeling about them on this forum.

I really don't want to make anyone feel miserable in this thread, so I'm sorry if I've done that.

It just angers me that (for now) FFG is using their app to make content unusable, which is compareble to DLC in video-games that is already on this disc and I hoped boardgames would never go there.

I really hope FFG does something about this, since I have never payed for boardgame content that I can't use (and I'm certain I won't in the future) and appearently judging from the released app, they didn't think about this for now.

modernlife wrote:
Even if they sold the conversion kit separately I would be willing to bet the price of the 2nd Edition would still be the same - $100 seems to be FFG's standard price for their big box games now. Also, would they then need to have three separate conversion kits - one for the base game and one for each of the two expansions?

What they've done seems to be the best overall option as it lures 1st Edition owners into purchasing the new edition. And this means better sales which is then more likely to lead to more content being produced. I don't think there's much doubt that FFG will release miniatures packs eventually for those missing monster and investigator minis.


Maybe this is true, but I think they would have felt the need to add something else if they didn't add the conversion kit, to get to 100$ value (I mean they DID add the CK).

But this is not about critisizing the addition of the conversion kit (which I think is a good move), it's about critisizing that FFG is using their app (for now) to make everyone who doesn't own first edition unable to use what they paid for.
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Re: You can't proxy the conversion kit.
DA_Maz wrote:
bleached_lizard wrote:
Reid666 wrote:
DA_Maz wrote:

Do you want to buy a game where ~2/3s of the content you bought is unusable unless you buy an unavailable product with an MSRP of 70$?


Excuse me, but I don't understand what your talking about. Could you elaborate more ?


For some reason, he thinks that the Conversion Kit comprises 2/3rds the contents of the base game box.


see for yourself

base game:
24 monster-tokens and -miniatures
8 investigator-cards and -miniatures

conversion kit:
33 monster-tokens
16 investigator-cards

While it's not really 2/3s it's effectivly more than half of the gameplay content.

33 tokens is not "a handfull of tokens" that's easily 1 to 2 complete cardboard sheets (FFG is selling 1 cardboard punchboard sheet for Runebound for 5$).

FFG could've (and still can) easily made this content available for everyone by being able to select the conversion kit in the app, but the app only lists the first edition products to select, which means you have to own the tiles of the first edition to use what's in the conversion kit that you are forced to buy with the base game.

This is precisly why I feel so bad about this product, because it would cost FFG literally nothing to make the conversion kit usable by everybody by copying some code and deleting a section from it... takes like 10-30mins.

Acererak wrote:
DA_Maz wrote:
Reid666 wrote:
DA_Maz wrote:

Do you want to buy a game where ~2/3s of the content you bought is unusable unless you buy an unavailable product with an MSRP of 70$?


Excuse me, but I don't understand what your talking about. Could you elaborate more ?


Technically FFG designed 24 investigators and 57 monsters for this game and they sell all of them to you in the base game.

However out of this content that you purchase, you can't use 16 investigators and 33 monsters unless you also own the first edition of Mansions of Madness.


The base set of 2nd ed gives you 8 investigators and 24 monsters, exactly the same as 1st ed base set did. 24 map tiles in 2nd ed base set compared to 15 of 1st.

I understand you guys are upset because you cannot use the 1st ed stuff right out of the box, but those of us who purchased the whole set in the first place didnt get it for free either. We will enjoy more stuff because we have spent way more than you just did. Fair trade, dont ya think?


I really don't get this sentiment. Either way those of us who don't own the first edition won't have access to the miniatures and maptiles and the maptiles are a big deal. Isn't this fair enough to you?

Do first edition owners only feel treated fairly if the ones who didn't buy first edition now have to buy content they can't use, because it's locked by the app?


I really think this reaction is a gut reaction motivated by desire for more stuff. I totally get it, but think of it this way: FFG COULD have not let us use 1E tiles at all or have not included a conversion kit and therefore required everyone to buy all of the content again.

Instead, they made a good faith effort to ease the monetary costs of those who had already invested into a game line that had some major errata, flaws, terrible set-up time, and other unresolved issues.

2E is only happening because 1E had enough support to show that people wanted something different than the EH/AH tactical maps that involved actual small scale investigations and exploration.

To me, this is a very nice "thank you" from FFG. And I really appreciate it.

With a game that starts with 24 double sided tiles to begin with, I do not feel like the base 2E box is "light" on play value. Just my 2 cents.
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Re: You can't proxy the conversion kit.
Maybe I was overreacting, Julia or Scarlet Witch tested the app and no tile from the 1ed was randomly spawned: https://boardgamegeek.com/article/23336228#23336228

I thought I will leave this here, since it fits very well into the "You can't proxy the conversion kit" topic.
 
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Re: You can't proxy the conversion kit.
DA_Maz wrote:


It just angers me that (for now) FFG is using their app to make content unusable, which is compareble to DLC in video-games that is already on this disc and I hoped boardgames would never go there.


They could. To do so they'd just have to provide standees for the extra investigators and say to just use the tokens instead of the minis for the monsters (or proxy them).

That'd fine right, everyone would be happy?

Now go look at the Imperial Assault forums. Search "Boba Fett" for extra fun, or "Han Solo". They didn't include minis, they just included tokens. People went apoplectic. How dare they not include minis? We're buying a game with minis and just getting tokens, it's ridiculous, etc.

I'm not dismissing your concerns, just saying that your fixes would have annoyed other people. It's sad for you that FFG picked the solution that you like least, but doing what you wanted would have annoyed other people. There's no simple answer.
 
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