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The Grizzled» Forums » Rules

Subject: Lucky Charm with no targets rss

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Chris Bush
United States
Iowa City
Iowa
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Can you use your Lucky Charm if there are no cards in no man's land that match?
We had a situation were the only player to have cards had a single card with bullet on it. There was 1 bullet in no man's land and one other player had a hard knock with a bullet on it. The player with the card goes first and the player with the hard knock goes second. If the player with the hard knock has the chance to withdraw, then the player with the card can play the last card.
 
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Barry Miller
United States
Saint Charles
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So you're saying that the first player with the bullet (shell) card also has an available lucky charm which isn't a shell... and potentially by playing that instead of playing his card, the player with the hard knock can then withdraw along with his shell trauma, to clear the battlefield for the first player.

Well, quite honestly, the face-value answer to your question ("no") is very clearly addressed on page 6 of the rulebook. (I don't mean to sound snarky or disrespectful, but the wording on how to play the Lucky Charm is clear that the answer to your question is, "no", and really can't be interpreted any other way). I only belabor this point as it makes me wonder what I'm missing from your question? Knowing me, I'm reading too much into it, or not seeing the obvious question that you might really be asking. (Usually it's me).

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Chris Bush
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Iowa City
Iowa
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your understanding of the game situation is correct, and much better worded than how i stated it

my instincts agree with your interpretation of the rules, however several people have made a very convincing argument that the rules do not appear to require the card to exist only for it to have a matching threat.
 
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Francisco Gutierrez
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Burbank
California
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You, sir, are playing with some real silver tongued people to be convinced otherwise.

"The player discards one of the cards from No Man's Land bearing the same type of Threat as their Good Luck Charm."

The No Man's Lane is the middle of the table where you play threats. Hard Knocks are assigned to players. Not much room for an argument
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Gillum the Stoor
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The question was not about whether a Good Luck Charm could be used to discard a Hard Knock but rather whether a Good Luck Charm could be used to no effect (because there is no matching Threat in No Man's Land).

Normally, you are not allowed to take an action (even to no effect) if you do not have the necessary resource:
- You cannot choose "Play a Trials card" if your hand is empty.
- You cannot choose "Use a Good Luck Charm" if it was already used.
- You cannot choose "Make a Speech" if you do not have a speech token.

[Interesting, you can choose "Withdraw and play a Support tile" even if you don't have a Support tile - but this is called out very explicitly in the rules.]

I agree with bgm1961 that the Good Luck Charm rule does begin "The player discards one of the cards from No Man’s Land," and this suggests that the action cannot be performed (or chosen) if there is no card to discard.

But I do wonder whether that was the designers' intent. After all, a player with a Speech token can make a Speech to no effect, thereby wasting the token just as a Good Luck Charm would be wasted in the OP's example.
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Jeff Finazzo
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St. Louis
MO
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gillum wrote:

I agree with bgm1961 that the Good Luck Charm rule does begin "The player discards one of the cards from No Man’s Land," and this suggests that the action cannot be performed (or chosen) if there is no card to discard.



I see that as an effect, not a requirement. I would be curious for an official ruling as well.
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Nick McClure
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Frantic Ferret wrote:
gillum wrote:

I agree with bgm1961 that the Good Luck Charm rule does begin "The player discards one of the cards from No Man’s Land," and this suggests that the action cannot be performed (or chosen) if there is no card to discard.



I see that as an effect, not a requirement. I would be curious for an official ruling as well.


I agree with the Ferret. We had a similar situation where I had the hard knock that does not let me withdraw unless I have no cards or I am the only player who hasn't withdrawn (Prideful). It was my turn, and I had a card in my hand that would cause us to lose the mission. I didn't have a speech. I had my lucky charm, but there were no cards in no man's land that match my lucky charm's symbol. I elected to use my lucky charm to no effect. I didn't explain or justify my action verbally, but the other player's realized that I made a "stupid" play because I can't withdraw and my last card would cause us to lose the mission, so everyone else withdrew and I was able to withdraw on my next turn.

Personally, I feel like it's a valid play because I don't believe the rules state that I must have a valid target for the card. It cost me my lucky charm, but the alternative was to lose the mission which would have been far worse. Honestly, I think the game is won by making plays like this and having fellow players realize your intentions. Of course, you could argue that the rule should say, "The player MAY discard one of the cards . . . " or "The player MUST discard one of the cards . . ." to make the whole thing clear, but I feel like the spirit of the game allows me to do what I did.

Besides, we eventually lost anyway, and the game is hard enough as it is! Unless I see an official ruling otherwise we may just house rule it like the way we played it. Learning non-verbal cues like this is the key to winning in my opinion, similar to playing style in a trick taking games when you can't tell your partner what you have but you can provide hints based on what you do.
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