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Arkham Horror» Forums » Rules

Subject: Monster placement and the outskirts limit rss

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I'm unclear on exactly how multiple monster placement is handled. Is it:

1. Drawn and placed one at a time
2. Drawn together and then placed

I'm aware that when placement cannot be evenly distributed you must determine where the excess will go ahead of time.

This then plays into my question about the outskirts. When are they cleared? If I have three monsters to go to outskirts but it only needs one more monster to clear it and increase the terror track do I:

a. Place all three in outskirts then clear
b. Choose one to go to outskirts first, clear, increase terror, then place the other two in outskirts
 
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foksieloy
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One at a time.

Pick gate for monster to appear at, pull out monster from bag, place monster at chosen gate.
The surge gate has to get the most monsters.

If the monster limit is reached, place in outskirts. If outskirts are full, clear them.
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Do you have a reference for that? It doesn't explicitly say (that I can say) in the rules, so I'm looking to source this.

Also, you state you need to pick a gate before pulling the monster, but again that doesn't seem to be the case in the rules. It only states you need to pick a gate where you have more monsters than are allowed to be placed, at which point gates must be nominated first.
 
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foksieloy
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Quote:
When a monster surge occurs, the number of monsters
drawn and placed is now equal to the number of open
gates or the number of players, whichever is greater.
When placing monsters, they should be divided as evenly
as possible among the open gates, with no gate having more
monsters placed on it than the gate where the monster surge
occurred this turn. If there are more monsters to be placed
than allowed by the monster limit, the players should
decide where monsters will be placed. The players must
make this decision before monsters have been drawn from
the cup. If the players cannot agree where the monsters are
to be placed, the first player decides the placement.
Example: There are 3 open gates (at the Black Cave,
Science Building, and Unvisited Isle), 7 players, and no
monsters in play when a Mythos card is drawn that opens
a gate at the Black Cave. This causes a monster surge: 7
monsters are drawn from the cup and placed on the open
gates. They must be distributed as evenly as possible, so
each of the 3 gates has 2 monsters placed on it, and the 7th
monster is placed on the Black Cave, where the monster
surge occurred. The Black Cave now has 3 monsters, while
the other 2 open gates each have 2 monsters on them.


Page 2 of the official Arkham Horror FAQ
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That's also in the revised manual, which I have. But it doesn't say anything about the order of draws to placement. Its only reference to picking gates is in relation to having more monsters than the limit allows. Maybe they meant for that sentence to cover the whole paragraph, but the way it's written right now it doesn't.

I did find an answer to my second question though, which is that you clear the outskirts, increase terror then place remaining monsters in the outskirts.
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Wolfie
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I believe this is the passage that best clarifies it:

"When the Outskirts limit is reached, the first monster added to the Outskirts that causes the limit to be exceeded is returned to the monster cup along with the rest of the monsters already in the Outskirts. Any remaining monsters are then added to the Outskirts."
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foksieloy
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Quote:
Example: In a 3-player game, the monster limit is 6 and
the maximum number of monsters in the Outskirts is
5. There are 3 open gates on the board, 6 monsters in
Arkham, and 4 monsters in the Outskirts. During the
Mythos Phase, you draw a location that already has
an open gate, so you have to draw 3 more monsters.
You would first draw 2 monsters and place them in the
Outskirts. The Outskirts limit would be exceeded upon
placing the second monster, so you would then increase
the terror level by 1 and return the six monsters in the
Outskirts to the cup. Finally, you would draw the third
monster and place it in the Outskirts.


https://images-cdn.fantasyflightgames.com/ffg_content/Arkham...
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Oh sorry, this is all my fault for asking two questions in one topic

So I (now) get that the answer to my second question is B. But I haven't found anything which definitively answers whether the first question is 1 or 2.
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foksieloy
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Pick whichever you like, in the end.

The common golden rule in Arkham is: whichever is harder for the player. So, that's 1.
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Wolfie
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Here's how we do it.

1. Unless the monster limit has been reached, pick a gate, draw 1 monster and place it there.
2. If the monster limit still has not been reached, pick another gate, draw 1 monster and place it there.
3. Repeat 2 until the monster limit is reached, rotating to gates as evenly as possible.
4. Once the monster limit has been reached, place 1 monster at a time in the outskirts until the outskirts limit is exceeded.
5. With the first monster that exceeds the outskirts limit, place that monster and all monsters in the outskirts in the bag, increase terror, and remove ally.
6. Repeat 4 and 5 as needed.

Using monster stands equal to the monster limit helps quite a bit.
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Thanks, that all sounds very sensible and I'll roll with that system too.
 
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Greg Draves
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Actual Rules wrote:
The first player draws monster markers at random and places them on each location with an open gate.
...
When a monster surge occurs, the number of monsters drawn and placed is now equal to the number of open gates or the number of players, whichever is greater. When placing monsters, they should be divided as evenly as possible among the open gates, with no gate having more monsters placed on it than the gate where the monster surge occurred this turn. If there are more monsters to be placed than allowed by the monster limit, the players should decide where monsters will be placed. The players must make this decision before monsters have been drawn from the cup. If the players cannot agree where the monsters are to be placed, the first player decides the placement.


Mine is a controversial opinion, but there's nowhere that says the monsters are placed sight-unseen, and the rules actually say draw then place.

In terms of the over-limit condition, it sounds like the players collectively decide which gates get monsters up to the limit (when there is a choice) before knowing what monsters will be drawn, then the first player places them as above. Remaining monsters are placed in the Outskirts one-by-one, checking if the Outskirts limit is exceeded after each one.
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Wolfie
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Gilderoy wrote:
Actual Rules wrote:
The first player draws monster markers at random and places them on each location with an open gate.
...
When a monster surge occurs, the number of monsters drawn and placed is now equal to the number of open gates or the number of players, whichever is greater. When placing monsters, they should be divided as evenly as possible among the open gates, with no gate having more monsters placed on it than the gate where the monster surge occurred this turn. If there are more monsters to be placed than allowed by the monster limit, the players should decide where monsters will be placed. The players must make this decision before monsters have been drawn from the cup. If the players cannot agree where the monsters are to be placed, the first player decides the placement.


Mine is a controversial opinion, but there's nowhere that says the monsters are placed sight-unseen, and the rules actually say draw then place.

In terms of the over-limit condition, it sounds like the players collectively decide which gates get monsters up to the limit (when there is a choice) before knowing what monsters will be drawn, then the first player places them as above. Remaining monsters are placed in the Outskirts one-by-one, checking if the Outskirts limit is exceeded after each one.


It may very well be that we are being stricter than the rules actually allow here. We prefer to not control and possibly skew placement to our strategic advantage by choosing locations further from our investigators. This is actually a rare case where the game gives players more control over placement than we choose to take - for us it's just easier to always start with the surging gate and then, if there are more gates than monsters that can come out on the board due to the monster limit, roll randomly to see which remaining gates spawn monsters. Also feel random fits better thematically. If we are under the monster limit, we just pick a gate, then draw the monster and place it there. At no point do we draw the monster (seeing how difficult it is), then decide where it goes.

Here's the actual rule though:

"If there are more monsters to be placed than allowed by the monster limit, the players should decide where monsters will be placed. The players must make this decision before monsters have been drawn from the cup. If the players cannot agree where the monsters are to be placed, the first player decides the placement."

Edit: in the end we're agreeing on the placement method and deciding before the monsters are drawn, so we're good. The one thing I don't like is drawing then deciding.
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