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Band of Brothers: Ghost Panzer» Forums » General

Subject: Op Fire changes from Band of Brothers. rss

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Will Marrero
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I was curious if anyone had a feel for the changes in Op Fire from Band of Brothers to Ghost Panzer. I realize the concept of proficiency was changed to affect the firepower rather than the moral check. This doesn't strike me as a huge change.

However, the fact that in Ghost Panzer if you fail the Op Fire morale check you are marked Used while in Band of Brothers, you aren't seems HUGE. I haven't actually played Ghost Panzer, so I was curious to hear from someone who has played both rules.
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Josh
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There's almost no diff. There's a few edge cases where there's a slight diff from before (a 10% chance vs no roll), but those rarely happen and the feel of the game isnt any different.

And the same can basically be said for the Used situation. I wasnt bothered by it at all. It's more streamlined by a hair and the outcomes dont seem any different. The end result is virtually the same, it just comes about in a slightly different way.
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Kent Reuber
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There's a version 2.1 rules for Texas Arrows that's available for download.
 
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Will Marrero
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I suspected the outcomes weren't very different between old proficiency and new proficiency.

The used issue however, on the surface at least, would seem to have a bigger effect. For example, under the old system, if you marked a unit OpFire, you were guaranteed not to be marked used until you took a shot. With this advantage taken away, seems like there is a lot less incentive to mark someone OpFire. Why restrict your options unnecessarily? After all, you forego the option of firing normally (without the proficiency penalty) if a enemy ends their move in your LOS if you mark yourself OpFire.
 
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Jim Krohn
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You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
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You can check out in depth discussion about it here:

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/984026/ghost-panzer-2-st...


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Will Marrero
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Thanks for the pointer. I don't want to necro that thread, so I'll post my reaction here.

I found this in that thread:

Quote:
Suppose a squad from 101st Airborne (full-strength) moves in woods, and a German 1st line squad (unsuppressed) Op Fires from 2 hexes out, with the old method:

30% chance of not firing,
35% chance of ineffective fire,
28% chance of suppression,
8% chance of casualties

If I understand the new method:

0% chance of not firing,
70% chance of ineffective fire,
30% chance of suppression,
0% chance of casualties


Assuming this math is correct, here is the issue I see. A unit moves and is shot at by OpFire. In the new system, a second unit could move by that now used unit with impunity as long as it stays 2 hexes away. Under the old system, 30% of the time, that wasn't possible. 30% of the time, the unit that wanted to fire is still available to fire at the second unit. And if it doesn't get a chance to op fire again, on its turn it could fire or move, assuming it hadn't been marked OpFire. This is the more significant change that I was asking about, but I didn't see it addressed in that other thread.
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Jim Krohn
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You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
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Quote:
A unit moves and is shot at by OpFire. In the new system, a second unit could move by that now used unit with impunity as long as it stays 2 hexes away. Under the old system, 30% of the time, that wasn't possible. 30% of the time, the unit that wanted to fire is still available to fire at the second unit.


It has been so long since I played the old way - since a year before GP's first release - that it took me a moment to figure out what you were asking.

Right. There is now no mechanism for failing a Prof check and thereby preserving its action for later. Three things:

1. It does not come up as much as you might think. If they are in the open, you are taking the shot. If they are under cover, you might not take the shot just to preserve your operational flexibility.

2. I wanted to make it so that units were not punished so much for moving as long as it was at distance and under cover - especially when faced by normal and poor troops. I felt that better modeled reality. Out in the open is still deadly, but less so under cover and at distance. I felt that was a better model of history.

3. In a similar vein, I also had to change the way the Proficiency was handled with vehicles. Now, when they fail a Prof check they are marked as used. Failing a Prof check never caused Infantry or Vehicles to be marked as used in the original system. Now they both are marked as used. With infantry this is through the no effect on the fire attack die roll. With vehicles the rule was explicitly changed to say they are marked as used when they fail a Prof Check (since they still have a Prof Check).

For those reading this thread that are relatively new to the system, this is talking about a change made before the first release of Ghost Panzer. All of the playtesting since about 2012 has been done with this rule. All the playtesting for both Ghost Panzer and Texas Arrows was done with this set of rules. The SE scenarios also play great with it.

My motivation for the change back in the day was to streamline the game. While I was at it, I also wanted to make it more realistic and moving at distance under cover was part of it.



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beresford dickens
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wmarrero wrote:
Why restrict your options unnecessarily? After all, you forego the option of firing normally (without the proficiency penalty) if a enemy ends their move in your LOS if you mark yourself OpFire.


You do get an advantage when Op Firing for having the marker. More usually it is the BoB 'slow bicycle race', where you must Use your units and are trying to preserve their ability to fire effectively in response to enemy movement.
 
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