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Vampire Hunters» Forums » General

Subject: Love what I am seeing with this game so far... rss

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Bill Hartman
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Surprised this game doesn't have more traction than it does. I've been pretty picky myself this year over (most) of the projects I back. I like to see solid rules, thorough examples of gameplay, and a well run campaign.

Vampire Hunters has done all of that. Been following it since just after they cancelled the previous campaign to regroup and tidy up the game (Even though they were already overfunded!). I like that, it shows that even though they had the money, they wanted to be REALLY sure they had the best game they could put out there, as well as take backer's feedback to heart.

Now they have relaunched, and have trickled out more and more gameplay, rules, and extra goodies. We now have the full beta rulebook, 4 official videos showing gameplay (one showing a full turn during the day, the other 3 showing setup and other "rules in action") as well as 2 KS Preview videos, to show us just about everything about the gameplay.

The rules and the videos really show you just about everything there is to know about the gameplay. Fears of it being a "Zombicide with Vampires" can easily be put to rest by looking over the videos alone. This is a much more focused/polished experience than Zombicide, with a lot of cool gameplay additions (Elder vampires have an "influence" deck that can affect hunters attacking them, turned hunters (Variant) have "compulsions" that affect how they play(and also have their own objectives, not just "PvP"), the night/day cycle (and associated vampire status/abilities)... just too much to even list here!

The only thing really left for them to "reveal" info about, is the campaign/dens. Honestly, I don't think any KS like this has ever released any of that info (not that I've backed/followed), but it has been mentioned that we will get a peek at possibly the first "Den"/mission and more details on the campaign mode (other than what is already spelled out in the rulebook).

Such a great campaign, with very active employees from Dark Gate Games chatting, answering questions, dropping little hints from time to time... and awesome update after awesome update. Just loving what I am seeing so far, and wondering (if anything) what would keep more BGG users from jumping on board a project like this? Is it Kickstarter fatigue (lots of projects going on at the moment), or is it something about the project?
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I think the only thing that may keep more people from backing isn't really related to the game itself, but that it's coming out at a time when this type of game (tactical dungeon crawlers) are reaching a saturation point. Many have come out already or were up on Kickstarter earlier. I'm personally already waiting on 4 KS dungeon crawlers (5 if you count Mistfall which is card game but kind of plays like one),I'm picking up 2nd Edition Mansions of Madness this week and I already have Fireteam Zero, Galaxy Defenders and Claustrophobia in my collection. Most people don't need as many dungeon crawlers as I seem to!
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Bill Hartman
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Yeah, I have most of Zombicide (don't have S2), Descent 2.0, Claustrophobia, Myth, Mice and Mystics, Imperial Assault, and quite a few others. Thing is, most of those really don't get played. We lost interest in Zombicide, Mice and Mystics never really clicked with us (we don't hate it, but don't love it), daughter and wife won't play Imperial Assault with me (and daughter wasn't into Descent) and Myth gets bogged down due to my daughter wanting to make up her own storylines WHILE we play the game, which drags it out over too long of a period (and then we both lose interest...lol).

So this one really seems like a good one, especially since you can play a Den/Hunt standalone (outside of campaign mode), and they give you recommended item setup to accommodate for the difficulty. I haven't seen that done before, and that is great, because sometimes my family won't invest enough time in a game (at least, not enough plays in a row) to finish a campaign, so it is nice to be able to play pieces of it here and there, if necessary, and have recommended equipment and all for the hunters (Since in campaign mode, there is a "Downtime" phase between hunts where Hunters can purchase weapons and abilities, therefore becoming stronger).

I also like the placement of encounter/spawn tokens, so you aren't sure what is where until you enter a room and reveal it. That reminds me of "Space Cadets:Away Missions" which we really enjoy. You know WHAT is going into the whole setup, but not where anything will actually be...adds to the replayability without taking away from tactics too much (making it TOO random), imo.

Plus, my daughter REALLY LOVES Nyx, even if she doesn't quite fit the "aesthetic" of the rest of the game. It is a crossover though, from another game world (and I'm not THAT big of a stickler for details, especially when she DOES look cool...lol). So if that helps maintain her interest, then great! It also doesn't hurt that there are plenty of other female characters in the game that aren't a "healer" or support person, so she can feel just as badass as the guys.
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FunkyFlyChicken wrote:
So this one really seems like a good one, especially since you can play a Den/Hunt standalone (outside of campaign mode), and they give you recommended item setup to accommodate for the difficulty.

Galaxy Defenders does this too.

I really hope this game does well though. It really isn't a clone of anything else. It combines elements from many games and adds thematic elements to it. And the Kickstarter campaign is really well run. As long as they can provide the miniature quality they promise, this game will be a success, even if it only becomes a "cult" hit.
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Bill Hartman
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Haven't played Galaxy Defenders, but have read about it and it seems interesting. Space games are a tougher sell for my wife, but if it is Zombies and Vampires, we can sometimes convince her to at least try it...lol.
 
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Ricky W
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FunkyFlyChicken wrote:
Haven't played Galaxy Defenders, but have read about it and it seems interesting. Space games are a tougher sell for my wife, but if it is Zombies and Vampires, we can sometimes convince her to at least try it...lol.

Then you should take a look at sword & sorcery.
It is based on galaxy defenders and uses family friendly generic fantasy.

Btt
Vh can indeed become a great game with a rarely used strong theme. But I still miss some features to convince me totally:
- enemy diversity (ranged fighters, fleeing alarming patrols, ...)
- support of more than 4 players
- character development (stats, not items)
- I'd like some kind of panic mechanic

I agree that it is a really well run campaign!

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Bill Hartman
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Stats would probably ruin this for us. The Panic mechanic was reworked into one of the card decks, to an extent (according to @DGG), as the Panic feature just didn't work out that well.

I know some of the Penalty for Combos may make some vampires attack, then possibly move and attack the other player (something that was talked about as a possibility in the KS comments).

I'm betting as more SG's are announced, we will see more vampires with other abilities. I'm not sure what ranged attacks vamps would have though, but I think if some Elders (and things like Bats/Mists) have the ability to leap forward and back for attacks, that would probably count for "ranged". I guess we will see!

I think they also mentioned that if this goes well, they have lots of ideas for expansions, so maybe the panic meter and/or other things will show up then.
 
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I also think they abandoned the panic mechanic because it was part of the core mechanics that didn't fully work last time. I also agree that the Elder Influence cards substitute this somewhat.

As far as variability of Vampire attacks, I don't think we've seen enough vampire stat cards to be sure they don't have different behaviours. And I really like the idea of the swarm of bats and mist.
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Bill Hartman
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Yeah, the bats sound interesting. I'm curious to hear more about the mists...

My daughter was also suggesting (as some other backers have), how could it would be if the Vampire Lord or some Elder can call down bats or wolves as a special ability. Could happen, who knows... we haven't seen all that info yet...
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Bryce K. Nielsen
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Not picked up traction? It's far surpassed its goal of $40k (currently at $210k) with still 15 days to go, I think it's picked quite a bit traction. I guess since we have a handful of million dollar kickstarters, a quarter of a million dollars is a failure?

I backed many kickstarters that gained less and am quite pleased I did. This one looks very fun, even if we are in a golden age of dungeon crawlers, we don't have any vampire games yet, so I'm very excited for it.

-shnar
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Bill Hartman
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I never said it was a failure. But I wondered about the exposure, and due to the info provided and a lot of BGG users being "mini lovers", figured this one would soar a bit higher (especially earlier on). I know it's not a CMON project, and doesn't have a cult IP to bank on and have seen a few people question it based on looking like Zombicide.

In no way did I state, or am stating, that this game is a failure. Would just like to see it grow even faster and see more conversation about it here on BGG.
 
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Bryce K. Nielsen
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Sure, hope for more of course, but it's pretty successful already. Consider the following similar games (i.e. dungeon crawl-ish) that funded with less than $300k:

- $90k Dungeon Crusade
- $200k Darklight: Memento Mori
- $20k Argo
- $40k Zombie Tower 3D
- $222k Battlestations: Second Edition
- $80k Perdition's Mouth: Abyssal Rift
- $170k Endure the Stars
- $50k Z War One: Damnation
- $90k Blackout: Journey into Darkness
- $386k Gloomhaven
- $150k Vast: The Crystal Caverns
- $63k Zpocalypse 2: Defend the Burbs
- $83k Skull Tales
- $255k Project: ELITE
- $207k Fireteam Zero
- $260k Galaxy Defenders
- $180k Incursion
- $210k Galaxy Defenders: Operation Strikeback
- $190k Zpocalypse: Aftermath – Z-Team Alpha Pack

There really aren't that many games that break the $500k mark, outside of CMON projects. Even The Walking Dead: No Sanctuary only garnered $433k. Maybe FunkyFlyChicken is right, there's just too much of a saturation...

-shnar
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When you put it like that, it is doing very well. I have quite a few of those games on there too...

I think what it comes down to is the mid campaign lull. It's hard to get through. Hard to come down from the adrenaline rush!
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Gloomhaven is probably one on that list that I was most interested in, but I just don't know about "legacy" style games, so didn't back. Dungeon Crusade, I LOVED the guys enthusiasm, but it just didn't do it for me.

I didn't back WD: No Sanctuary, but I heard about an exodus of backers leaving over a few issues. Might have done better, especially considering the IP and the known developers, had it avoided those.

I feel a similar way about the Evil Dead game. Although that one seems to be primarily riding on the fandom, who are just excited over quotes on the cards more than questioning gameplay and such. Even now that one is a hot mess (they could potentially end up with 39 wooden dice tiers that CAN'T be honored, due to putting the dice in other tiers after the fact). But that is just one of many issues with that one, and it will likely end pretty high. It's obvious a good IP will bring in the crowds, kind of like how a CMON project will always break a million...lol.

Considering this is Dark Gate Games first title, it certainly IS doing well, especially with over 2 weeks left in the campaign.

I'm sure once they reveal the Campaign/Den details more, and possibly reveal the manufacturer of the minis, we'll see a good uptick.

And yeah, mid-campaign lull is always tough to watch, especially when you watch it all day long...lol.
 
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Bryce K. Nielsen
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It's also hard to not compare it to the unusual super successful campaign (like all of the Zombicides, Myth, Massive Darkness, Conan, Shadows of Brimstone: City of the Ancients, Dark Souls: The Board Game, even Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles: Shadows of the Past almost broke $900k). But you have to remember that A) there's really not that many and B) these "winners" are either piggybacking on a theme (TMNT, Dark Souls) or were first to market (Zombicide, Brimstone). Now that there's more and more, $200k is a pretty damn successful Kickstarter.

I actually think this one has a good chance of breaking $300k, but I doubt it will break the $500k mark, which is a damn shame. I mean, how many Vampire games are out there?!?

-shnar
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I know, right?! I don't know of any recent vampire games like this (Just Fury of Dracula, which is a different type of game anyhow).

And yeah, I edited above about IP bringing in the larger dollars for some campaigns.

A really good vampire game is much needed!
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Jonas Vanschooren
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There are many of these games out there but what first drew me to this one was the theme. Love vampires and this peaked my interest.
Gameplay looks neat, al cool stuff they seem to have balanced pretty good.
I think it will have a permanent spot in our collection (both my gf and me love adventure/dungeon crawler games).
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carraway0877 wrote:
Vh can indeed become a great game with a rarely used strong theme. But I still miss some features to convince me totally:
- enemy diversity (ranged fighters, fleeing alarming patrols, ...)
- support of more than 4 players
- character development (stats, not items)
- I'd like some kind of panic mechanic

FunkyFlyChicken wrote:
Stats would probably ruin this for us. The Panic mechanic was reworked into one of the card decks, to an extent (according to @DGG), as the Panic feature just didn't work out that well.

I know some of the Penalty for Combos may make some vampires attack, then possibly move and attack the other player (something that was talked about as a possibility in the KS comments).

I'm betting as more SG's are announced, we will see more vampires with other abilities. I'm not sure what ranged attacks vamps would have though, but I think if some Elders (and things like Bats/Mists) have the ability to leap forward and back for attacks, that would probably count for "ranged". I guess we will see!

I think they also mentioned that if this goes well, they have lots of ideas for expansions, so maybe the panic meter and/or other things will show up then.


I too don't see stat enhancement, since it was never the plan to do so. I just said that VH does not fully convince me, because I like characters to evolve in increasing stats and not only in better gear.
Ok, not really a showstopper!

Yes, I agree the panic mechanic in its old form was too clunky. And for me the elder influences are manipulative psychic powers. I wish there was just one very simple rule considering the fear such monstrous creatures emanate, because this fear/panic/surprise is such a deep theme in vampire lore!

I admit ranged attacks are really not a thematic must have in a game with monstrous wild-animal-like vampires, but it would add variety to the game (some more human like minions or less wild/more intelligent vamps could use firearms). On the contrary minions spotting intruders and fleeing to wake their masters are imho very vampire thematic.


Don't get me wrong. Imho VH is indeed a great game as it is now! The question for me is: Is it great enough for me to spend 100$ plus or even 150 $ plus for it?

For now the answer is: Almost.

What I desparately need the most is 5+ player support!

 
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Jonathan Gardner
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@Ricky W

See that is my problem as well. Limiting the game to 4 players doesn't work for me. And my concern is that they are doing what Descent did, and basically build that limitation into the scaling of the game, so expanding beyond that limit is prohibitive.

I'm currently a backer, but unless there is a resolution of the 4 player limit that doesn't require an additional $35+, then I believe I will withdraw from this KS.
 
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orionpeace wrote:
Limiting the game to 4 players doesn't work for me. And my concern is that they are doing what Descent did, and basically build that limitation into the scaling of the game, so expanding beyond that limit is prohibitive.

To some extent the game balances itself regarding player numbers, because for every player turn there is a vampire turn. Sadly the event tokens are fixed for maximum 4 players.

They should have done tokens combined with a spawn deck!


The tokens should have been like:
Quote:
draw terror card, put lever, draw two spawn cards.

And on spawn cards like:
Quote:
Spawn a Upyr for every 2 players
and
Quote:
Spawn an elder for every 3 players.

Edit: I'll post this to the ideas-thread.

 
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