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Codenames» Forums » General

Subject: A Codenames puzzle rss

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Rob Rundle
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Here is a quick Codenames puzzle. Your task (should you choose to accept it...) is, with one clue, to correctly pick all your nine words without a mistake. See the pic below for the grid.

The clue is: Projectra: zero

Note: specialist knowledge may be needed for this.

Click the pic to enlarge (or see the next entry, where Michael Logan has helpfully presented the pic in larger format).

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Michael Logan
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Robrun wrote:
Here is a quick Codenames puzzle. Your task (should you choose to accept it...) is, with one clue, to correctly pick all your nine words without a mistake. See the pic below for the grid.

The clue is: Projectra: zero

Note: specialist knowledge may be needed for this.

Click the pic to enlarge.

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Rob Rundle
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Thanks, Michael! I didn't spot that I could've done that.
 
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James C
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I don't know what a Projectra is, so...
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Mark Nicosia
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Being not familiar with the comic, but having internet search available whistle I'd guess...
Spoiler (click to reveal)
princess
superhero
comic
kid
Saturn
witch
star
fire
dress

Though I'd probably pass before the last 3, which are just flat-out guesses.

Without internet search available, I probably would have guessed
Spoiler (click to reveal)
superhero
comic
fire
shadow

and then passed
 
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Jared Lock
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My guesses:
Spoiler (click to reveal)
pretty much certain
princess
kid
comic
superhero
witch
saturn
star
shadow
wild guess
dress?
 
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Kirk Monsen
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it's a zero clue .. so shouldn't it be the opposite of what people are guessing? ie, everything not related to Projectra would be the answer?

if it was all Projectra related then he would have said 9
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Mark Nicosia
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MunchWolf wrote:
it's a zero clue .. so shouldn't it be the opposite of what people are guessing?


Ah, that is true. I messed that up once in real life too, immediately pointing at a wrong word that was obviously related to the clue given. blush
 
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Kirk Monsen
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so with the above in mind I would guess:
Spoiler (click to reveal)
Pumpkin
Turkey
Needle
Africa
Parachute
Buffalo
Lion
Beach
Himalayas
 
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Jared Lock
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MunchWolf wrote:
it's a zero clue .. so shouldn't it be the opposite of what people are guessing? ie, everything not related to Projectra would be the answer?

if it was all Projectra related then he would have said 9

Wait... doesn't that mean there are 16 words related to Projectra? I think I need more specialist knowledge than I have
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Moose Detective
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thyren wrote:
MunchWolf wrote:
it's a zero clue .. so shouldn't it be the opposite of what people are guessing? ie, everything not related to Projectra would be the answer?

if it was all Projectra related then he would have said 9

Wait... doesn't that mean there are 16 words related to Projectra? I think I need more specialist knowledge than I have


I see 10 words I would connect to Projectra which is a problem cuz its not 9 and its not 16.
 
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Salvador C. Majoral
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So Robrun, what did you mean, Projectra 9 or Projectra 0?
 
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Rob Rundle
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stevelabny wrote:
thyren wrote:
MunchWolf wrote:
it's a zero clue .. so shouldn't it be the opposite of what people are guessing? ie, everything not related to Projectra would be the answer?

if it was all Projectra related then he would have said 9

Wait... doesn't that mean there are 16 words related to Projectra? I think I need more specialist knowledge than I have


I see 10 words I would connect to Projectra which is a problem cuz its not 9 and its not 16.


You've found 10 words that are related. So, suppose you are the cluegiver, and 9 of those words are yours and the other is the assassin. Can you find a way to gets your team to pick the right 9 and avoid the deadly one?



 
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Rob Rundle
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salva wrote:
So Robrun, what did you mean, Projectra 9 or Projectra 0?


Zero.
 
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Rob Rundle
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stevelabny wrote:
thyren wrote:
MunchWolf wrote:
it's a zero clue .. so shouldn't it be the opposite of what people are guessing? ie, everything not related to Projectra would be the answer?

if it was all Projectra related then he would have said 9

Wait... doesn't that mean there are 16 words related to Projectra? I think I need more specialist knowledge than I have


I see 10 words I would connect to Projectra which is a problem cuz its not 9 and its not 16.


There are two ways of handling the zero clue. 1: avoid all words related to it, and 2: (probably more usefully) avoid the single word that is most specific to the clue.
 
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Moose Detective
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Robrun wrote:
stevelabny wrote:
thyren wrote:
MunchWolf wrote:
it's a zero clue .. so shouldn't it be the opposite of what people are guessing? ie, everything not related to Projectra would be the answer?

if it was all Projectra related then he would have said 9

Wait... doesn't that mean there are 16 words related to Projectra? I think I need more specialist knowledge than I have


I see 10 words I would connect to Projectra which is a problem cuz its not 9 and its not 16.


You've found 10 words that are related. So, suppose you are the cluegiver, and 9 of those words are yours and the other is the assassin. Can you find a way to gets your team to pick the right 9 and avoid the deadly one?



Ok, well ... if I follow that hint correctly...

My answer would be

Spoiler (click to reveal)
9 of the 10 words related to Projectra

Comic
Super Hero
Kid
Saturn
Shadow
Night
Star
Fire
Witch

but because you said ZERO I should take out the most obvious word - Princess.

Without that hint, I NEVER would have followed your logic of 9 related words minus one. It is ever so infintesimally possible that a group taking it out might have figured it out. But its much more likely in a game situation we would touched Princess FIRST and then kept going until we could pass.

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Rob Rundle
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stevelabny wrote:
Robrun wrote:
stevelabny wrote:
thyren wrote:
MunchWolf wrote:
it's a zero clue .. so shouldn't it be the opposite of what people are guessing? ie, everything not related to Projectra would be the answer?

if it was all Projectra related then he would have said 9

Wait... doesn't that mean there are 16 words related to Projectra? I think I need more specialist knowledge than I have


I see 10 words I would connect to Projectra which is a problem cuz its not 9 and its not 16.


You've found 10 words that are related. So, suppose you are the cluegiver, and 9 of those words are yours and the other is the assassin. Can you find a way to gets your team to pick the right 9 and avoid the deadly one?



Ok, well ... if I follow that hint correctly...

My answer would be

Spoiler (click to reveal)
9 of the 10 words related to Projectra

Comic
Super Hero
Kid
Saturn
Shadow
Night
Star
Fire
Witch

but because you said ZERO I should take out the most obvious word - Princess.

Without that hint, I NEVER would have followed your logic of 9 related words minus one. It is ever so infintesimally possible that a group taking it out might have figured it out. But its much more likely in a game situation we would touched Princess FIRST and then kept going until we could pass.



Correct! Well done. You just have to think through the logic and it's not as hard as all that. All the words relate to the Legion of Super-Heroes, so the first question you should ask is: why didn't the cluegiver say 'Legionnaires: 9'? (This assumes you know that at least one of your guessing team-mates knows about the Legion). Why choose 'Projectra: zero'? The only possible answer is that 'Princess' is to be avoided, but that all other words that clearly fit in the obvious group are to be chosen.

I did this, apart from hoping to entertain some of you for a few minutes, to highlight one use of the zero clue that may not have come your way before.

This actually happened to me, so it's not as infinitesimal as you think, and I've several times been in situations when I could/should've used this method but didn't.

The thing that really happened was this: my team had two words left, with none missed, while the other team had a single word remaining so was certain to win if we didn't get our two. Our cluer took ages coming up with 'Beatles: zero'.

My co-guesser and I were dumbfounded. We had missed nothing from earlier rounds, so why did he give us a zero clue? Sure, we knew to avoid 'Band', but what words should we go for instead?

The cluegiver's choices were:
1) Give a clue for 2, if possible, but if not,
2) Give a clue for 1 and leave us a random guess.

He did neither, so what gives? There remained only one possibility - that the remaining two words were linked, but that there was a real danger that we would pick another word (possibly the Assassin or the other team's remaining word) that also related to the obvious clue. So, what could he do? Answer, give a very specific zero clue to the one to avoid, and hope we picked the two words that were very closely related to it.

It took us a few minutes to work it out, but we did it. 'Concert' and 'Rock' were our two words, and 'Band' had been the Assassin. We won the game. We congratulated Errol (our cluegiver) on his ingenuity. Sure, there were probably other ways to do it in this case, but when you're a spymaster under pressure it's not easy to come up with the answers!

For another example, suppose you have 'England, 'Germany', 'Turkey' and 'India' among your words, but that 'France' is the Assassin. There might be an answer using regular cluegiving (can't think of one, tho' someone might be able to) but 'Paris: zero' is just the ticket. They know to avoid France, but have no missed clues to catch up on. What can they do? Answer - use logic to ask themselves why their spymaster did this. If you follow through logically the only possible answer is that they are being asked to choose all the other countries.

I don't suppose it'll happen to anyone that often - and obviously never with all nine words - but I think it's worth bearing in mind.

Thanks to everyone for having a go.
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Robert Stewart
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I'm not convinced this is a legal use of the zero clue - the use of zero as the number of words that the clue relates to is supposed to indicate that no target words relate to that clue, not that 9 target words relate to the clue, just not as well as a non-target clue.
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Kirk Monsen
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rmsgrey wrote:
I'm not convinced this is a legal use of the zero clue - the use of zero as the number of words that the clue relates to is supposed to indicate that no target words relate to that clue, not that 9 target words relate to the clue, just not as well as a non-target clue.


it is not a legal use per the rules

Quote:
You are allowed to use 0 as the number part of your clue. For example, feathers: 0 means, "None of our words relate to feathers."


that does not mean he can't give that clue. it just means I would never logic it out in the manner that he wanted
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Kirk Monsen
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Robrun wrote:
stevelabny wrote:
thyren wrote:
MunchWolf wrote:
it's a zero clue .. so shouldn't it be the opposite of what people are guessing? ie, everything not related to Projectra would be the answer?

if it was all Projectra related then he would have said 9

Wait... doesn't that mean there are 16 words related to Projectra? I think I need more specialist knowledge than I have


I see 10 words I would connect to Projectra which is a problem cuz its not 9 and its not 16.


There are two ways of handling the zero clue. 1: avoid all words related to it, and 2: (probably more usefully) avoid the single word that is most specific to the clue.


Incorrect. Only #1 is correct per the rules.
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Rob Rundle
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MunchWolf wrote:
Robrun wrote:
stevelabny wrote:
thyren wrote:
MunchWolf wrote:
it's a zero clue .. so shouldn't it be the opposite of what people are guessing? ie, everything not related to Projectra would be the answer?

if it was all Projectra related then he would have said 9

Wait... doesn't that mean there are 16 words related to Projectra? I think I need more specialist knowledge than I have


I see 10 words I would connect to Projectra which is a problem cuz its not 9 and its not 16.


There are two ways of handling the zero clue. 1: avoid all words related to it, and 2: (probably more usefully) avoid the single word that is most specific to the clue.


Incorrect. Only #1 is correct per the rules.


Then the zero rule is totally useless. In almost 400 games I've never come across any situation where one would want to use that. We'll carry on playing it as #2, which is actually useful from time to time.
 
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Scott Yavorski
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Not to mention that the "zero" part of your clue would mean that your team could only guess at most 1 clue. Your team is allowed to guess a number of times equal to the number you give plus 1.
 
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Ciffy wrote:
Not to mention that the "zero" part of your clue would mean that your team could only guess at most 1 clue. Your team is allowed to guess a number of times equal to the number you give plus 1.

Nope. Zero is an exception that allows for unlimited guesses.

It is, however, as a few people have said, supposed to mean that NO words relate to that clue. It's useful if your team already has some previous clues to work with and you want to just make sure they stay away from the assassin or the other team's words.
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Michael Logan
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rmsgrey wrote:
I'm not convinced this is a legal use of the zero clue - the use of zero as the number of words that the clue relates to is supposed to indicate that no target words relate to that clue, not that 9 target words relate to the clue, just not as well as a non-target clue.


I think it is legal and not addressed in the rules. Just because you can't say a number too high doesn't mean the opposite.

If you have N clearly related clues, saying the one that it isnt can be a great clue.
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For any group of spies that hadn't pre-agreed on this clue-giving variant, Projectra:0 would most likely result in them arguing about why their spymaster gave such a useless clue with 15 possible answers, guessing one of them, and thereby passing their turn to the other team.

Future clues would also always overlap with the ten words the team had already excluded from their considerations, leading to more confusion.

I'm not saying it wouldn't be funny, as the explosion when the oh-so-clever spymaster finally explained why they lost after the game ended, and all their team-mates launched into "you idiot!" recriminations would be hilarious... but it doesn't really work as a puzzle on an online forum.
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