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Cthulhu Wars» Forums » Rules

Subject: Invisible Dark Young contribute to Shub's combat dice? rss

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Jeff Okamoto
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Situation: Shub (with Red Sign) + Dark Young (controlling gate) vs. Flying Polyp + others. Pre-Battle the Polyp makes the Dark Young invisible. How many dice fewer does Shub roll now that there is "no" Dark Young and an "uncontrolled" gate?

IIRC, the number of dice that byakhee and undead contribute are changed if they are made invisible. Does similar reasoning apply to calculating Shub's combat dice? I think the answer is "yes", so Shub's combat dice are reduced for this.

The other question is whether an invisible cultist still controls a gate. I think the answer is "yes", so Shub's combat dice is not reduced for this.
 
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Graham Robinson
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Shub's dice don't change. The Dark Young doesn't need to be in the same area as Shub to contribute to her combat dice, only on the board. Contrast this with Yellow Sign, where the combat dice calculation requires the undead or mi-go to be actually present in the battle to count.

Cheers,
Graham
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David E
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Also, being Invisible doesn't take the Dark Young off the gate, so it's still controlled.
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Niko
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therealbuserian wrote:
Shub's dice don't change. The Dark Young doesn't need to be in the same area as Shub to contribute to her combat dice, only on the board. Contrast this with Yellow Sign, where the combat dice calculation requires the undead or mi-go to be actually present in the battle to count.

Cheers,
Graham
I thought they only needed to be in the area and so the undead and byakee still count for the dice as long as at least one other unit of the type is still involved in the fight.
Maybe that's a misunderstanding on my part though.

That was a misunderstanding on my part

Basically it comes down to the wording; invisibility excludes a unit from the fight, but leaves it on the map and even in the same area. Based on that and the exact wording of how to calculate combat strength for great old ones it's usually pretty straight forward to see if invisibility does or doesn't change the dice rolled.
 
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Jeff Hobbs
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The FAQ section in the rule book says:

Quote:
Q. Yellow Sign’s Undead and Byakhee have Combat values that
change depending on how many are present in the area. If an Undead
or Byakhee is exempted via Invisibility, since it is still “present” does it affect the Combat of the remaining Units?

A. An invisible Unit does not count as being “present” in the Area
for this purpose. If you have two Undead in an Area, and one is turned
invisible, the remaining Undead rolls zero dice, not one. The intent is
that Invisibility is supposed to be useful.

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Niko
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jchobbs wrote:
The FAQ section in the rule book says:

Quote:
Q. Yellow Sign’s Undead and Byakhee have Combat values that
change depending on how many are present in the area. If an Undead
or Byakhee is exempted via Invisibility, since it is still “present” does it affect the Combat of the remaining Units?

A. An invisible Unit does not count as being “present” in the Area
for this purpose. If you have two Undead in an Area, and one is turned
invisible, the remaining Undead rolls zero dice, not one. The intent is
that Invisibility is supposed to be useful.

I thought there was a thread that discussed specifically this and in it the official ruling was contrary to that FAQ, will have to go looking for it

EDIT: Never mind, looks like I remembered exactly the opposite of what the threads where this was discussed are saying...

Lets hope the omega rule book changes the wording used when stating how many dice undead/byakee roll from "in area" to "in battle" so that it's more obvious.
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Jeff Okamoto
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Based on the "intent is that invisibility is supposed to be useful", is it useful enough that the 2-dice Dark Young don't contribute, or should it be so gosh-darned useful that it additionally reduces Shubby by 1 die?
 
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Niko
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PrestoJeff wrote:
Based on the "intent is that invisibility is supposed to be useful", is it useful enough that the 2-dice Dark Young don't contribute, or should it be so gosh-darned useful that it additionally reduces Shubby by 1 die?
The dark young is still on the map so it will contribute dice. Nothing to do with "useful enough", there's a benefit to using the spell book in the situation already, no reason to bend the rules to increase that.

The only reason that I was confused about any of this is that the undead/byakhee use a wording of "units in the area" when the intent is "units in the battle".
The invisible units are for all intents and purposes still on the map, just not involved in the battle. As such they will contribute dice to GOOs/other units as if they are still on the map.
 
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Hector-Xavier de Lastic
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Ze_German_Guy wrote:
Lets hope the omega rule book changes the wording used when stating how many dice undead/byakee roll from "in area" to "in battle" so that it's more obvious.
My exact suggestion Let us all hope (and make a few sacrifices to the Great Old Ones) that now that spellbooks and faction sheets are being reprinted, the "on the Map", "in the Area" and "in battle" distinction will be adopted!
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