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Subject: Engaging Economic Euro (See inside for details) rss

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Ian Kissell
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First off, I want to say that I am not really sure how to even articulate the question, so I am going to do my best.

I really like the 90-120 minute, medium+ weight Euro. However, I have been playing a fair amount of dudes on a map games recently, and I have noticed how memorable and engaging these experiences are. I can still tell you a lot of what happened in my TI3 game from 3 months ago. While I like the puzzle of Euro games, there is something not quite as memorable in "I put my token in this spot giving me an entire set so I get a 3 point bonus." I think some of it is the player interaction, and some of it is the sense of story the Dudes on a map games provide.

I would like to know what are some Euro games, preferably economic games, that you would say give you a similar sort of engagement not just over the mechanics, but the tension and experience it provides. I know that is an open ended question, but I am interested in seeing what people say.

A few parameters, I know someone is going to suggest Food Chain Magnate, Tigris & Euphrates, or Suburbia, so I will save you the trouble. I also know that 4x civ games are probably good in this category, but they might be a little longer then I am looking for. Finally, I have played most of the top 200, so those games are not off limits, but I have probably played them already.

EDIT: To be clear, I am not looking for a Euro that imitates a dudes on a map game. It does not need dudes or a map. I am looking for Euros that create the same sort of immersive experience as these games do.
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Dan
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Tigris & Euphrates is easy 90-120 minutes max
Suburbia is also easy to play in less than 2 hours
Castles of Mad King Ludwig is another one that is similar to Suburbia (same designer), but in my view an evolutionary step forward.

I am going to put a left field one out there:
Cuba. It is a bit of a euro cube-pusher, resource conversion type thing, but with a twist. Every round, the players get to vote on the law changes for the next round. And, being Cuba, bribery is also allowed to give you more votes. Allow 90 minutes.

Another light "economic" game that is a lot of fun is Santiago. Bribery, bidding, area control, etc. Plays best with 4-5 players. And it plays in 45-60 minutes.
 
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Ian Kissell
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KissellMissile wrote:

A few parameters, I know someone is going to suggest Food Chain Magnate, Tigris & Euphrates, or Suburbia, so I will save you the trouble.


djn1981 wrote:
Tigris & Euphrates is easy 90-120 minutes max
Suburbia is also easy to play in less than 2 hours
Castles of Mad King Ludwig is another one that is similar to Suburbia (same designer), but in my view an evolutionary step forward.


Called it.
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Dan
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KissellMissile wrote:
KissellMissile wrote:

A few parameters, I know someone is going to suggest Food Chain Magnate, Tigris & Euphrates, or Suburbia, so I will save you the trouble.


djn1981 wrote:
Tigris & Euphrates is easy 90-120 minutes max
Suburbia is also easy to play in less than 2 hours
Castles of Mad King Ludwig is another one that is similar to Suburbia (same designer), but in my view an evolutionary step forward.


Called it.


Sorry - I was trying to highlight that these games do not take longer than 2 hours to play. I thought you were ruling them out because they are too long for you? Oops, misread your original post.
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corum irsei
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I'm not 100% sure I understand what you're looking for. Perhaps something like Scythe? It's mostly a Euro-game, but it's quite thematic and borrows some aspects from dudes-on-a-map games, i.e. area-control and combat. It's not an economic game, though, although it features a few different resources and gold.
 
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Nicholas Hjelmberg
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Have you considered Power Grid? It's a classic euro known for its market mechanisms.

Another option could be the "light 18XX" game of Poseidon. I haven't played it yet but it has some 4X elements and I hope to get it to the table soon.

Another game I'd like to play is Container, where all market conditions are created by the players themselves, but it's hard to find.
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Giovanni Wassen
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nhjelmberg wrote:
Another game I'd like to play is Container, where all market conditions are created by the players themselves, but it's hard to find.

There's a reprint coming.

Also, Automobile might fit the criteria. It's economic and you can screw people over.
 
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Harv Veerman
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I think the Original post is sort of begging for out of the ordinary answers.

So I suggest Kraftwagen and Nauticus.

Let us know which suggestions you like in the end, I'm curious as to what fits your description.
 
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Jay Sachs
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Despite your hope, there is not even any inherent symbolism; gravity is simply a coincidence.
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While not strictly an economic game, Pax Porfiriana requires you to manage your economy. It overflows with tension, experience, and interaction .
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Tomello Visello
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KissellMissile wrote:
I really like the 90-120 minute, medium+ weight Euro.

However, I have been playing a fair amount of dudes on a map games recently, and I have noticed how memorable and engaging these experiences are.

I think some of it is the player interaction, and some of it is the sense of story the Dudes on a map games provide.

I would like to know what are some Euro games, preferably economic games, that you would say give you a similar sort of engagement not just over the mechanics, but the tension and experience it provides.

Finally, I have played most of the top 200, so those games are not off limits, but I have probably played them already.

I say with confidence that Jet Set at least touches on those elements. Whether or not it does so to your satisfaction is just as certainly another issue.

There is a map of Europe. The "dudes" are Airplane tokens. Your interaction comes in owning (as indicated by the tokens) route segments that other players desire and in racing those players to complete visible route tickets (via any collection of route segments that connects two specified cites) for game points. Ownership of routes requires payment of money. Money is earned from completed route tickets.

Money is the method but winning is based on points.

This description will be recognized as reminiscent of TtR but note that money is required and the tickets are not hidden.

Oh, and I while I personally give the game high marks, its current BGG rank is well outside the top 200.


Edit:
Tension and engagement heighten at endgame. All players have one secret, long distance ticket. First to complete triggers the end of game procedure in which other players have 5 more turns. The player who triggers is not necessarily the winner.

 
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Tomello Visello
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Mad Math wrote:
I think the Original post is sort of begging for out of the ordinary answers.

So I suggest Kraftwagen and ...

I'll chip in with reinforcement for Kraftwagen. There are several diverse ways to earn points, but there is a great deal of disruption that can be achieved in the market place by creating a sale that undermines another player.

Sadly I see it is already in your collection and For Trade...
 
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Joel Oakley
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You mention that most 4x games are probably longer than you want but speak positively of TI3, so I am going to suggest Arkwright despite its length.

In reality, the full version of the game (called Water Frame) takes about an hour per player, but I have quite enjoyed my experience with the Spinning Mule version of the game, which takes about 30-40 minutes per player. It has a great tension surrounding the pricing of goods to meet limited demand (the player who has the most appealing goods will sell first). Additionally, I have heard that some people who do not tolerate longer games usually are happy to play a full game of Arkwright.

 
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Justin Fuhrmann
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Check out Panamax. It's one of our favorite economic games.
 
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Ian Kissell
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jhaelen wrote:
I'm not 100% sure I understand what you're looking for. Perhaps something like Scythe? It's mostly a Euro-game, but it's quite thematic and borrows some aspects from dudes-on-a-map games, i.e. area-control and combat. It's not an economic game, though, although it features a few different resources and gold.


I've played Scythe 5 times the last week, and do enjoy it.

I'm having a hard time articulating what I am looking for myself, which I understand makes it hard. What I've noticed in my recent spree of more ameritrashy games (Forbidden Stars, Star Wars: Rebellion, TI3, Sythe, Blood Rage) is that these game create very engaging play experiences. I'm not sure if it is the heightened player interaction, or the fact that a story tends to unfold as you play the game. I am poking around for Euros that might create this sort of experience.

Really, I am just asking, what Euros make you feel particularly engaged not just with the puzzle of the game, but with the game itself.

An opposite example for me would be Trajan. In Trajan, I can be engrossed trying to figure out my mancala board, but the game does not offer me a world that I can really be engaged in.

That is it. Highly subjective question, just hoping I can find something.
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Ian Kissell
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TVis wrote:
Mad Math wrote:
I think the Original post is sort of begging for out of the ordinary answers.

So I suggest Kraftwagen and ...

I'll chip in with reinforcement for Kraftwagen. There are several diverse ways to earn points, but there is a great deal of disruption that can be achieved in the market place by creating a sale that undermines another player.

Sadly I see it is already in your collection and For Trade...


I love the theme and action selection of Kraftwagen. I am not sure I am going to keep it because it does not play well with two and in general just feels too short. Also, I don't love how the engineer cards come out.
 
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Shaun
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I am not sure if it fits your requirements perfectly, but Mombasa is an excellent economic euro. Whenever we play, my group still discusses strategies we used in previous games, it is usually tense to the end. It's a close scoring game, and a fairly engaging, area control game.

Just some thoughts.
 
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Marcus
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Checkout Antike II.

It's a light Civ game with eurogame mechanics that plays in under 2 hours. Players have abstracted fleets and armies that can be used to take over opponent's cities, plus the game includes a simplified economic engine.

While there is engine building, players can also score points for civ advancements, building temples and expanding their empire.

Another game, that I have not played, maybe look into Eclipse (but more involved and > 2hrs playing time).

 
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Marcus
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Maybe also Dominant Species.

Doesn't have an economic engine, but for a game with eurogame type mechanics, the game has a good thematic feel and narrative. Playing time is longer than 2hrs, maybe like 3-4 hrs for your first games.

There are also light adventure board games, like Betrayal at House on the Hill and many FFG games that are heavy on the story/narrative side, but can be light in terms of strategy/tactics, so maybe not the kind of games you're looking for.





 
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Jason Wear
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Maybe try Snowdonia? Firmly middle weight. I find myself more 'immersed' in this game than most other euros.
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Jay Sachs
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Despite your hope, there is not even any inherent symbolism; gravity is simply a coincidence.
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KissellMissile wrote:
Really, I am just asking, what Euros make you feel particularly engaged not just with the puzzle of the game, but with the game itself.


Following up on my earlier recommendation of Pax Porfiriana, I'd suggest other Eklund games -- particularly Neanderthal and High Frontier.
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Pater Absurdus
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Ian, we may not come to the same conclusions (e.g. Chaos vs. Blood Rage) but I do like the way you think about this. So many euro's have well thought out mechanics but are lacking something.

I am not sure if there is going to be a game that fits this which you haven't already heard of.
 
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Chris Williams

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I haven't played it, but the Shut Up & Sit Down review of Chinatown gave me the impression that the play-throughs would be memorable, since most of it is player-to-player interaction.
 
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