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Don Clarke
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Can you voluntarily choose to play a tile that isn't adjacent to another tile or a city at double cost, even if you have tiles that could be played adjacent?

Or can you only play a non-adjacent tile at double cost if you have no adjacent plays available?

If so, this seems to me to add another layer of strategy. If not, shouldn't you have to prove that you have no legal plays?

 
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Moshe Callen
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ἄνδρα μοι ἔννεπε, μοῦσα, πολύτροπον, ὃς μάλα πολλὰ/ πλάγχθη, ἐπεὶ Τροίης ἱερὸν πτολίεθρον ἔπερσεν./...
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μῆνιν ἄειδε θεὰ Πηληϊάδεω Ἀχιλῆος/ οὐλομένην, ἣ μυρί᾽ Ἀχαιοῖς ἄλγε᾽ ἔθηκε,/...
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Re: Playing non-adjacent tiles at double cost - can you do this voluntarily?
As I read the rules, I don't see why not. I'd not recommend doing so but you can.
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Don Clarke
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Re: Playing non-adjacent tiles at double cost - can you do this voluntarily?
I was thinking there may be circumstances that you might want to play a cheap tile, say $1000, at double cost, rather than a $6000 tile at normal cost. For instance, you may own shares on the cheaper tile's route. Or you may not want to help complete someone else's route.
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Shayne Richards
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Re: Playing non-adjacent tiles at double cost - can you do this voluntarily?
No the rules state that if you cannot lay a tile you can lay one at double cost.
 
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Shayne Richards
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Re: Playing non-adjacent tiles at double cost - can you do this voluntarily?
While it could be worded differently the rules I still think clearly state it,
"Each turn begins by playing one track tile next to a city, or next to any existing tile. Otherwise, you must lay track where possible at double cost."

Therefore each turn you lay an adjacent (Full Stop) Otherwise (if you can't lay an adjacent)...
 
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Moshe Callen
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ἄνδρα μοι ἔννεπε, μοῦσα, πολύτροπον, ὃς μάλα πολλὰ/ πλάγχθη, ἐπεὶ Τροίης ἱερὸν πτολίεθρον ἔπερσεν./...
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μῆνιν ἄειδε θεὰ Πηληϊάδεω Ἀχιλῆος/ οὐλομένην, ἣ μυρί᾽ Ἀχαιοῖς ἄλγε᾽ ἔθηκε,/...
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Re: Playing non-adjacent tiles at double cost - can you do this voluntarily?
Shaynerichards72 wrote:
While it could be worded differently the rules I still think clearly state it,
"Each turn begins by playing one track tile next to a city, or next to any existing tile. Otherwise, you must lay track where possible at double cost."

Therefore each turn you lay an adjacent (Full Stop) Otherwise (if you can't lay an adjacent)...

How does that say you have to play an adjacent tile if you can? I think you've disproven your own point.
 
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Shayne Richards
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Re: Playing non-adjacent tiles at double cost - can you do this voluntarily?
Quite simply by what it says.

Each turn you place a tile adjacent (FULL STOP)

What if I can't?

OK well OTHERWISE you can do this as a solution.

Trying to read it the way you are reading would remove the full stop from the sentence, and would use the word "or".

You are reading it as, "Each turn begins by playing one track tile next to a city, any existing tile OR you can lay a track tile ANYWHERE possible at double cost.

If you want to delve into a study of the english language you can. Otherwise you can email the designer and get a response."
 
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Shayne Richards
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Re: Playing non-adjacent tiles at double cost - can you do this voluntarily?
Don't try and read something into something that isn't there.
 
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Moshe Callen
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ἄνδρα μοι ἔννεπε, μοῦσα, πολύτροπον, ὃς μάλα πολλὰ/ πλάγχθη, ἐπεὶ Τροίης ἱερὸν πτολίεθρον ἔπερσεν./...
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μῆνιν ἄειδε θεὰ Πηληϊάδεω Ἀχιλῆος/ οὐλομένην, ἣ μυρί᾽ Ἀχαιοῖς ἄλγε᾽ ἔθηκε,/...
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Re: Playing non-adjacent tiles at double cost - can you do this voluntarily?
So that's the tone you wish to take. I was not rude to you, you'd no business being rude to me.

First, for the English language crack, go stick it. I'm a native speaker and likely know the language better than you do.

Second, I've already had detailed email conversations with the designer prior to my review of the game. I'll not swear this was one of the questions I asked, but I strongly believe that it was. I hate potentially ambiguous wording in rules.

The first sentence quoted contains no language expressing obligation. Yes, you can read it as you do, but it could also be simply listing a third option. Do please strive to be polite in future and know what the blazes you're talking about before presuming to mount a proverbial high horse. In general, "don't be a dick."
 
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Moshe Callen
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ἄνδρα μοι ἔννεπε, μοῦσα, πολύτροπον, ὃς μάλα πολλὰ/ πλάγχθη, ἐπεὶ Τροίης ἱερὸν πτολίεθρον ἔπερσεν./...
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μῆνιν ἄειδε θεὰ Πηληϊάδεω Ἀχιλῆος/ οὐλομένην, ἣ μυρί᾽ Ἀχαιοῖς ἄλγε᾽ ἔθηκε,/...
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Re: Playing non-adjacent tiles at double cost - can you do this voluntarily?
Looking back on my emails, I didn't ask this or if I did I did not find that email.

I'd say though that if the designer wanted to exclude the possibility of paying double voluntarily, clearer wording would be needed such as a simple "if…" clause. "Otherwise" simply does not explicitly exclude the choice.
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Don Clarke
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Re: Playing non-adjacent tiles at double cost - can you do this voluntarily?
Moshe is right:

"Don:

You may play an unconnected tile, paying double, even if all other tiles are playable. As you say, if this was not allowed then you would have to reveal all your tiles when you play an unconnected tile.

Tom"

I did ask the question of Tom at Columbia Games on 5th August. Apologies for not getting back here quicker, but I thought Moshe's view was the way everyone was playing anyway.

The rules are unclear imo, as Moshe says they can be read either way, but this clears them up. As well as now being official this is also the better way to play as it allows more choice in play.
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Shayne Richards
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Re: Playing non-adjacent tiles at double cost - you CAN do this voluntarily. Offical.
I am happy to be proven wrong although your comments are out of line. You have taken my comments as being rude (which was not my intention), and I incidentally took your to be but thats what happens on these sites where there is just writing.

Congrats on being a native english speaker...not sure what country you think I come from though, strange comment which is out of place after your other comments.

Let me rephrase so I don't upset the precious cast.

In my opinion, I feel that it is quite clear. If that is not how you read it fine.

While not wanting to turn this misunderstanding into a silly childish tiff I will say regarding your comment re polite, I WAS being polite, so imagine when people write subtle insults like "DON"T BE A DICK" I could reply with a Billy Connolly quote (something to do with sex and yourself).

As for my interpretation of the rules, I was basing my opinion on my experience and quals (M.Ad.Ed, B.Ed (prim), Dip Pol. Grad Cert Uni Teach & Learn, and as a published author) and without waving each others manhood at each other to see who's is bigger, yes you may well know the language better than I do. Reflect on this conversation before you play poker.

Trust me I am very upfront so if I wanted to write with a tone you would know.

I apologise if you took my replies to be deliberately obtuse, but thats just the way I write (and talk).
 
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Shayne Richards
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Re: Playing non-adjacent tiles at double cost - you CAN do this voluntarily. Offical.
yangtze2000 wrote:
Moshe is right:

"Don:

You may play an unconnected tile, paying double, even if all other tiles are playable. As you say, if this was not allowed then you would have to reveal all your tiles when you play an unconnected tile.

Tom"

I did ask the question of Tom at Columbia Games on 5th August. Apologies for not getting back here quicker, but I thought Moshe's view was the way everyone was playing anyway.

The rules are unclear imo, as Moshe says they can be read either way, but this clears them up. As well as now being official this is also the better way to play as it allows more choice in play.


I am glad this has been cleared up, and am totally fine with being wrong. I will say it is a very big problem with war game rules and while Columbia Games are pretty good with writing out rules, I will maintain that the biggest issue is the fact that the rules are written by designers or people who know the game well. They lack the editing stage and while we spend all this time play testing games to get them right, we don't seem to take the same approach to getting rules correct.

Game designers should consider getting someone who has never played the game to read the rules and provide feedback after playing. Then issues like this would be flagged before final production.

I am happy to do this for free but seeing as I got this wrong it won't look good on my resume...
 
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Moshe Callen
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ἄνδρα μοι ἔννεπε, μοῦσα, πολύτροπον, ὃς μάλα πολλὰ/ πλάγχθη, ἐπεὶ Τροίης ἱερὸν πτολίεθρον ἔπερσεν./...
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Re: Playing non-adjacent tiles at double cost - you CAN do this voluntarily. Offical.
That was a Wil Wheaton quote.
 
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Shayne Richards
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Re: Playing non-adjacent tiles at double cost - you CAN do this voluntarily. Offical.
I guess thats like saying the axe killed the person, I only threw it.
 
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