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Mansions of Madness: Second Edition» Forums » Rules

Subject: Range rss

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Daniel Running
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So, is Range just Line of Sight? I played the 1st scenario and feel like I didn't get attacked enough (I know, weird complaint). If the Hunters can't "See" through doors (and they shouldn't) then the layout of the mansion makes for very few long hallway type places.

Thanks.
 
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Chris J Davis
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"Within range" is basically "within 3 spaces but not through doors". There is no concept of line-of-sight in this game.
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Krzysiek Domański
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bleached_lizard wrote:
There is no concept of line-of-sight in this game.
For me, that's amazing news.
In games that's don't feature a heavily strategic combat implementation, it's not worth keeping. The tediousness outweighs the seeming "realism" increase.
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j landman
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Kevin Seachrist
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Is there a tile or sequence of tiles where the three spaces could take a corner but still not be interrupted by a wall?

I'm fine with how straightforward the rule is, I'm just looking forward to the pulpy goodness of banking a shot off the wall to hit the Star Spawn around the bend.
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Chris J Davis
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Rykaar wrote:
Is there a tile or sequence of tiles where the three spaces could take a corner but still not be interrupted by a wall?

I'm fine with how straightforward the rule is, I'm just looking forward to the pulpy goodness of banking a shot off the wall to hit the Star Spawn around the bend.


There are some instances where the three spaces can go around a corner, but it's rare. And in those cases you can just say that your investigator is dashing to the corner to shoot around it, or you're doing a trick shot or something.
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Alexander Steinbach
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So I take it that the LOS "dots" from 1e are done for then? No need anymore for taking a ruler out and measuring LOS on outdoor maps?
 
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Chris Lawson
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Vardaine wrote:
So I take it that the LOS "dots" from 1e are done for then? No need anymore for taking a ruler out and measuring LOS on outdoor maps?

Correct, there are no dots on the tiles anymore (outdoor or in). Haven't checked the rules but it looks like that old LOS requirement has gone.
 
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David Miller
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I was confused about range and wasn't sure if door meant open or closed. As some tiles have open and some closed. In one instance it was horrible I was fighting 2 monsters in an adjacent space from the rest of the group through an open door. However the others in the group couldn't assist me with spells or ranged weapons from their space which was kinda odd. Also with horror checks, I'm sorry but if I see a hunter through an open door shouldn't that be a horror check during the mythos phase. But it seems doorways block that.
 
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Richard A. Edwards
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I agree that the rules seem to say that doors create a situation where even though the spaces on either side are adjacent, they aren't within "range" of each other.

This makes no sense.

I can move from one to the other but not use any range effects?
 
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Bryn Ballard
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SirRoke wrote:
I agree that the rules seem to say that doors create a situation where even though the spaces on either side are adjacent, they aren't within "range" of each other.

This makes no sense.

I can move from one to the other but not use any range effects?


Agree this is important and needs clarification. Is it true that there's no ranged combat between adjacent spaces through doors?



 
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Alexander Steinbach
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There are "open" doors in this game?
 
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Julia
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yesbryn wrote:
SirRoke wrote:
I agree that the rules seem to say that doors create a situation where even though the spaces on either side are adjacent, they aren't within "range" of each other.

This makes no sense.

I can move from one to the other but not use any range effects?


Agree this is important and needs clarification. Is it true that there's no ranged combat between adjacent spaces through doors?


Indeed. You cannot shoot through doors, period.

No line of sight rules are implemented either (I imagine to keep the game simple) so that if a corridor has a 90° angle you're allowed to shoot even if you are not in direct sight of the monster.

So, in the latter case you're better than a Ranger sniper, but then, suddently, when you face a door... you're back to your normal self

(possibly the only thing I don't like of the game)
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Martin Vetter
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Vardaine wrote:
There are "open" doors in this game?


There are doorways! Doors are picture on the tile itself and I guess they are always assumed closed. Doorways however are of course always open.
So it makes sense that you cannot shoot through a door, but you can of course shoot through a doorway.

 
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Julia
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magikerendk wrote:
Vardaine wrote:
There are "open" doors in this game?


There are doorways! Doors are picture on the tile itself and I guess they are always assumed closed. Doorways however are of course always open.
So it makes sense that you cannot shoot through a door, but you can of course shoot through a doorway.


No, you can't.

Doorways are not a concept defined in the game. And rules for range are clear:

Range cannot be counted through walls or doors unless an effect specifically allows it.

Please, very important point: we are all free to houserule the game like we want, but answering with houserules, or interpretations, without making it clear it's a houserule, or an interpretation, could generate false knowledge in those reading these forums and willing to play the game as it was designed.
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Bryn Ballard
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Scarlet Witch wrote:
magikerendk wrote:
Vardaine wrote:
There are "open" doors in this game?


There are doorways! Doors are picture on the tile itself and I guess they are always assumed closed. Doorways however are of course always open.
So it makes sense that you cannot shoot through a door, but you can of course shoot through a doorway.


No, you can't.

Doorways are not a concept defined in the game. And rules for range are clear:

Range cannot be counted through walls or doors unless an effect specifically allows it.

Please, very important point: we are all free to houserule the game like we want, but answering with houserules, or interpretations, without making it clear it's a houserule, or an interpretation, could generate false knowledge in those reading these forums and willing to play the game as it was designed.


Thank you for the clarification. I will keep this in mind during my next game and decide whether I want to house rule this or not.
 
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Chris J Davis
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warpi9 wrote:
I was confused about range and wasn't sure if door meant open or closed. As some tiles have open and some closed. In one instance it was horrible I was fighting 2 monsters in an adjacent space from the rest of the group through an open door. However the others in the group couldn't assist me with spells or ranged weapons from their space which was kinda odd. Also with horror checks, I'm sorry but if I see a hunter through an open door shouldn't that be a horror check during the mythos phase. But it seems doorways block that.


If the door is closed, how do you know where to aim?
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Chris J Davis
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SirRoke wrote:
I agree that the rules seem to say that doors create a situation where even though the spaces on either side are adjacent, they aren't within "range" of each other.

This makes no sense.

I can move from one to the other but not use any range effects?


As I've pointed out above, being "within range" normally represents you targeting something. If the door is closed, how are you meant to target?
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Chris J Davis
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Vardaine wrote:
There are "open" doors in this game?


No. There is either a door or there isn't. There's no concept of "open doors".
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Chris J Davis
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Scarlet Witch wrote:
yesbryn wrote:
SirRoke wrote:
I agree that the rules seem to say that doors create a situation where even though the spaces on either side are adjacent, they aren't within "range" of each other.

This makes no sense.

I can move from one to the other but not use any range effects?


Agree this is important and needs clarification. Is it true that there's no ranged combat between adjacent spaces through doors?


Indeed. You cannot shoot through doors, period.

No line of sight rules are implemented either (I imagine to keep the game simple) so that if a corridor has a 90° angle you're allowed to shoot even if you are not in direct sight of the monster.

So, in the latter case you're better than a Ranger sniper, but then, suddently, when you face a door... you're back to your normal self

(possibly the only thing I don't like of the game)


And I think this is one area we disagree on.

I think the removal of LoS rules for a game that isn't combat-focused and doesn't really need them was a good design choice. The thematic issues come up so infrequently (I think it's mostly only in Escape from Innsmouth that the issue comes up on a semi-regular basis) that it would be a lot of extra rules overhead for very little benefit (and LoS rules are always one of the most annoying and fiddly in board games, and I think in 1st Ed the issue of LoS literally never came up in all the games that we ever played).

There are decent enough thematic justifications for the doors/corners issues, and it really hasn't impacted our enjoyment of the game or spoilt the immersion any.
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Chris J Davis
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yesbryn wrote:
Scarlet Witch wrote:
magikerendk wrote:
Vardaine wrote:
There are "open" doors in this game?


There are doorways! Doors are picture on the tile itself and I guess they are always assumed closed. Doorways however are of course always open.
So it makes sense that you cannot shoot through a door, but you can of course shoot through a doorway.


No, you can't.

Doorways are not a concept defined in the game. And rules for range are clear:

Range cannot be counted through walls or doors unless an effect specifically allows it.

Please, very important point: we are all free to houserule the game like we want, but answering with houserules, or interpretations, without making it clear it's a houserule, or an interpretation, could generate false knowledge in those reading these forums and willing to play the game as it was designed.


Thank you for the clarification. I will keep this in mind during my next game and decide whether I want to house rule this or not.


Where are you seeing "doorways"? The only one I can think of is the one between the kitchen and the dining room (and off the top of my head, I can't remember what the artwork is like to know whether it's a door or not).
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Bryn Ballard
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bleached_lizard wrote:
yesbryn wrote:
Scarlet Witch wrote:
magikerendk wrote:
Vardaine wrote:
There are "open" doors in this game?


There are doorways! Doors are picture on the tile itself and I guess they are always assumed closed. Doorways however are of course always open.
So it makes sense that you cannot shoot through a door, but you can of course shoot through a doorway.


No, you can't.

Doorways are not a concept defined in the game. And rules for range are clear:

Range cannot be counted through walls or doors unless an effect specifically allows it.

Please, very important point: we are all free to houserule the game like we want, but answering with houserules, or interpretations, without making it clear it's a houserule, or an interpretation, could generate false knowledge in those reading these forums and willing to play the game as it was designed.


Thank you for the clarification. I will keep this in mind during my next game and decide whether I want to house rule this or not.


Where are you seeing "doorways"? The only one I can think of is the one between the kitchen and the dining room (and off the top of my head, I can't remember what the artwork is like to know whether it's a door or not).


Yeah that's the one case I can remember from our game yesterday - there is no door just a yellow line to mark the transition between rooms.
 
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David Miller
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So I just went through the tiles and realized pretty much every entry/exit from a tile has a door in it. Last night while playing, I didn't notice the darker doors there so I thought it was a open entry/exit. Makes more sense now, but still kinda odd that they are always closed. But it is Mansions of Madness. Case solved for me.
 
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Chris Magoulis
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Thanks so much for this clarification. I really buggered up my first play through. blush
 
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Paul S
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bleached_lizard wrote:


If the door is closed, how do you know where to aim?


Ask Oscar. whistle
 
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