$18.00
GeekGold Bonus for All Supporters: 117.67

7,135 Supporters

$15 min for supporter badge & GeekGold bonus
45% of Goal | left

Support:

Recommend
2 
 Thumb up
 Hide
16 Posts

Runewars» Forums » General

Subject: Uthuk strength rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Atanasije Stojkovic
Serbia
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
I've noticed many people write about the statistics and it seems the Chaos faction is the one with the least number of victories down its way.

What's everyone's take on the Warlocks? They wipe out in nearly all of our games almost half of the opposing army. In each game they've destroyed around 4-6 different units. They just clear out the opponent, wiping out both Footmen and Bowmen in the case of the Humans and just cleaving through the Undead. I've tried using the Necromancers as a form of counter, especially since they themselves cannot be hit by the Warlocks' special ability (as fellow spellcasters), however that had amounted to close to nothing as any Reanimate raised subsequently gets destroyed. The only thing I can think of are the Elves, however the surge symbol is so rare for the basic unit type I don't think there's a possible way to rely on the Archers to wipe out the foul magicians. Even getting to a strong stack of 6 Archers backed by a hero doesn't really make a big difference. Additionally, the Elves' strongest unit is rectangular, meaning that it is too endangered by the Warlocks - with only the Sorceresses being safe. And that is just outright brutal, as the Pegasi have a total of 3 Hit Points. And they draw Fate cards together with the Warlocks, meaning they cannot use their ability to force them to retreat. There would, I guess, be some offset if the Pegasi Rider had had the ability to rout Warlocks, but not, just like them, they're limited to effecting triangular and rectangular units.

I just don't see so far what can be done except play with more than 2 players and hope you're not fighting Chaos, or attack him when he suffered at least some losses while fighting another player. That, or just hoping for luck. Actually all of their units have got very powerful abilities (we haven't seen much use only of the Chaos Lords' one, to tell the truth) which makes me wonder why are they on such a low winning streak on average, as well as why many people treat the Waiqar, and not the Uthuk, as the slightly overpowered faction.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Everett
United States
Presque Isle
Maine
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Nah, they usually do well on my table. Its Latari that are the weak ones.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Scott Lewis
United States
Thornton
Colorado
flag msg tools
NFHS Football & Basketball
badge
Dread Our Coming, Suffer Our Presence, Embrace Our Glory (Solonavi War Cry)
mbmbmbmbmb
For us, Latari used to be the weak ones, but with the expansion and the change to the Sorceress ability, they hold their own much better now.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Steve Williams
United States
Columbus
Ohio
flag msg tools
BITS FOR THE BITS GOD!
badge
Staring in dumbfounded terror at Frans Raynor's neckbeard.
mbmbmbmbmb
Uthuk are my second favorite faction, behind Waiquar. In my 10 games I've not seen the Latari come even close to contesting a game, let alone winning it.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Atanasije Stojkovic
Serbia
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
sigmazero13 wrote:
For us, Latari used to be the weak ones, but with the expansion and the change to the Sorceress ability, they hold their own much better now.


So if I understand the introduction of the hexagonal unit has solved most Elven problems?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Scott Lewis
United States
Thornton
Colorado
flag msg tools
NFHS Football & Basketball
badge
Dread Our Coming, Suffer Our Presence, Embrace Our Glory (Solonavi War Cry)
mbmbmbmbmb
Sargeras777 wrote:
sigmazero13 wrote:
For us, Latari used to be the weak ones, but with the expansion and the change to the Sorceress ability, they hold their own much better now.


So if I understand the introduction of the hexagonal unit has solved most Elven problems?

Partly, but I think the development cards were a good equalizer, too. And the Sorceress change in the revised edition took the unit from being nearly useless to very powerful.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
mike m
United States
Palisades Park
New Jersey
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
sigmazero13 wrote:
the Sorceress change in the revised edition took the unit from being nearly useless to very powerful.

we found this made a huge difference. latari have been pretty competitive in our games. though they haven't won, they were a very close second a couple times.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Atanasije Stojkovic
Serbia
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Since that is a part of the game now, I think it's moot to point that out. Many, like me, wouldn't even know that it was so in an earlier edition before you wrote on the forums.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Scott Lewis
United States
Thornton
Colorado
flag msg tools
NFHS Football & Basketball
badge
Dread Our Coming, Suffer Our Presence, Embrace Our Glory (Solonavi War Cry)
mbmbmbmbmb
Sargeras777 wrote:
Since that is a part of the game now, I think it's moot to point that out. Many, like me, wouldn't even know that it was so in an earlier edition before you wrote on the forums.

I have no idea who uses the original edition and who doesn't.

I've talked to several people who have the original edition who didn't realize the Sorceress ability changed! I don't think it's a moot point at all, because there are a LOT of players who have the original edition.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Marc Hanna
United States
New Smyrna Beach
Florida
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb

Apparently, we're supposed to remember that we advised OP to buy Runewars some months ago; accordingly, we're supposed to know he wouldn't have bought the first edition.

However, as this is a forum for one and all, I think it's good to point out significant changes in the revised edition, particularly with reference to adding development cards and the improvement to the sorceress for the Latari. In sum, remarks are not meant singularly for the OP.

Finally, I know for a fact this whole sorceress improvement issue has been discussed amongst us many times in this forum, OP included.

I think what has happened is that the original topic has been hijacked from Uthuk to Latari Nobody has commented much on the original questions posed.

2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Atanasije Stojkovic
Serbia
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Honosbinda wrote:

Apparently, we're supposed to remember that we advised OP to buy Runewars some months ago; accordingly, we're supposed to know he wouldn't have bought the first edition.

However, as this is a forum for one and all, I think it's good to point out significant changes in the revised edition, particularly with reference to adding development cards and the improvement to the sorceress for the Latari. In sum, remarks are not meant singularly for the OP.

Finally, I know for a fact this whole sorceress improvement issue has been discussed amongst us many times in this forum, OP included.

I think what has happened is that the original topic has been hijacked from Uthuk to Latari Nobody has commented much on the original questions posed.



Ha. Point taken. :-) My apologies.

I think I may be under the impression a bit of the continuously and consistently changing rules of Descent. Reprints have so far changed quite a bit of content of the original game it's almost safe to call the latest version significantly revised (even more so than Runewars, AFAIK) and over there everyone just keeps assuming everyone's playing with the latest rules.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Marc Hanna
United States
New Smyrna Beach
Florida
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
To address the warlock issue that originated your post, it's impossible to tell if you are talking about a straight up fight against warlocks...

are no tactics cards invoked or is one side getting supplemented more?

For example the Uthuk are renowned for gathering tactics cards to win battles compared to other factions since they do get a head start, esp over the elves ... what's happening there? A hero won't do much than allow another shot for one unit, barring some special ability as from Andira Runehand.

In a completely full fate deck of 30 cards (for some reason I thought there were 40!), the first warlock will have a 40% change of pulling an orb. This diminishes for each subsequent warlock by 3-4%. However, rarely will the warlock be pulling first so the deck could be worse, or better. Do you play that you can examine the cards of the [EDIT] discarded remaining fate deck before resolving battles? If there are a lot of orbs left in the deck for the circles, that would easily give an edge to warlocks.

I'm trying to narrow down all these variables. Seems Vampires could be good against them, or Wizards. Obviously hex units if they are around still. recruited sorcerers will likely outlast them. Seems to me the Daqan would have a nice edge against 5-6 warlocks due to initiative, your bowmen must be bad shots, your knights must be useless and your footman fight at the same time so they must suck too.

What I am wondering here, what the composition of your army; it must be other than pure warlock?

So to tackle this we need more specific examples. What exactly does your warlock army consist of, e.g. 5 warlocks, and 3 berserkers, or what? Are you over-stacking as the attacker Uthuk to overwhelm them?

I'm pretty sure that for any configuration by any faction, there is a counter-configuration / recruited neutrals that can counter any other faction army. However, that is a theoretical statement. But could lead to an interesting discussion?







1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Atanasije Stojkovic
Serbia
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Honosbinda wrote:
To address the warlock issue that originated your post, it's impossible to tell if you are talking about a straight up fight against warlocks...

are no tactics cards invoked or is one side getting supplemented more?

For example the Uthuk are renowned for gathering tactics cards to win battles compared to other factions since they do get a head start, esp over the elves ... what's happening there? A hero won't do much than allow another shot for one unit, barring some special ability as from Andira Runehand.

In a completely full fate deck of 30 cards (for some reason I thought there were 40!), the first warlock will have a 40% change of pulling an orb. This diminishes for each subsequent warlock by 3-4%. However, rarely will the warlock be pulling first so the deck could be worse, or better. Do you play that you can examine the cards of the [EDIT] discarded remaining fate deck before resolving battles? If there are a lot of orbs left in the deck for the circles, that would easily give an edge to warlocks.

I'm trying to narrow down all these variables. Seems Vampires could be good against them, or Wizards. Obviously hex units if they are around still. recruited sorcerers will likely outlast them. Seems to me the Daqan would have a nice edge against 5-6 warlocks due to initiative, your bowmen must be bad shots, your knights must be useless and your footman fight at the same time so they must suck too.

What I am wondering here, what the composition of your army; it must be other than pure warlock?

So to tackle this we need more specific examples. What exactly does your warlock army consist of, e.g. 5 warlocks, and 3 berserkers, or what? Are you over-stacking as the attacker Uthuk to overwhelm them?

I'm pretty sure that for any configuration by any faction, there is a counter-configuration / recruited neutrals that can counter any other faction army. However, that is a theoretical statement. But could lead to an interesting discussion?









No tactics. No expansion used (so no wizards or vamps and no hex for Elves).

Last battle was 1 Flesh ripper and 6 Warlokcs against 3 Bowmen, 5 Necromancers and 2 Reanimate.

They just seem to wipe everything out. Even the fact that they have got a rectangular initiative-1 unit is really huge; much better than the Elves (and I have not yet seen a situation in which someone uses the pegasi's ability to fly efficiently).
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Marc Hanna
United States
New Smyrna Beach
Florida
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Interesting! I can see how that could go south for the Undead... would be interesting to run the battle in a simulator 1000 times to see the assortment of results given those forces. For example if the necros raise a lot of reanimates, that leaves less orbs for the warlocks to pull.

I'm not sure I have the time to learn/remember how to program run the statistical simulation. One can imagine Excel having the functionality.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Garrett
United States
Tucson
Arizona
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
In my games, the Uthuk are brutal combatants, but usually can't keep their dragon runes.

My most recent game was Uthuk vs. Waiqar, and like the OP observed, the Warlocks just wiped out the Reanimates that the Necromancers summoned.

As for counters, I think initiative 1 units are good to have in your army. Even if they can't stop the Warlocks (meaning, they're not actually a counter), at least you got to draw cards before the Warlock forced you to destroy those units.

I also think you need to consider the board state. If Warlocks are really problematic, and if the Uthuk strategy seems to revolve around recruiting Warlocks, you need to focus on controlling the areas that produce wood. The Uthuk start with 2 wood, but they need a third in order to recruit 2 Warlocks. If you can keep them from getting that extra wood, that means they are only getting a single Warlock for every Recruit order.

Tactics cards are also important to consider. There is one that will let you advance a unit's initiative by 1. This would let the Pegasus Riders act before the Warlocks, routing them and preventing them from activating their ability.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Atanasije Stojkovic
Serbia
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Budgernaut wrote:
In my games, the Uthuk are brutal combatants, but usually can't keep their dragon runes.

My most recent game was Uthuk vs. Waiqar, and like the OP observed, the Warlocks just wiped out the Reanimates that the Necromancers summoned.

As for counters, I think initiative 1 units are good to have in your army. Even if they can't stop the Warlocks (meaning, they're not actually a counter), at least you got to draw cards before the Warlock forced you to destroy those units.

I also think you need to consider the board state. If Warlocks are really problematic, and if the Uthuk strategy seems to revolve around recruiting Warlocks, you need to focus on controlling the areas that produce wood. The Uthuk start with 2 wood, but they need a third in order to recruit 2 Warlocks. If you can keep them from getting that extra wood, that means they are only getting a single Warlock for every Recruit order.

Tactics cards are also important to consider. There is one that will let you advance a unit's initiative by 1. This would let the Pegasus Riders act before the Warlocks, routing them and preventing them from activating their ability.


The Uthuk player always uses the development to raise his wood to 3. Anyways he's never had 0 wood in all neighboring provinces in the games so far.

I did take the Undead in order to counter the Warlocks specifically, especially since they are of a higher initiative. But their remaining units just don't seem to be able to hold their strength on their own. Both are triangular units, and the Chaos have got a triangular and a rectangular, the latter being even of initiative-1. I did consider between the Elves and Undead as potential counters, but gave up on the Elves due to the sheer fact that they have no hexagonal unit.

I do not think that your strategy for the Pegasi could be rather relevant. The Pegasus Rider is a rectangular unit and the fate deck includes only 20% of them. There're the Latari Elves strongest unit so there are only 4 of them and it is highly unlikely all four will be in stock in a 2-player game. By the way, how many Tactics cards are in the deck (those that raise initiative)?

And just for clarity, we're playing the 2-player map from the Rulebook (example).
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.