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Holy Roman Empire: The Thirty-Years War» Forums » Rules

Subject: First Play Questions rss

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Thomas Compter
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Well, I finally got my first 1/5 of a play through of this game (3 turns in 7 hours), and I have to say, I really like it! It's got some neat subtle strategy nuances which really bring out the logistical nature of warfare.

As you might expect, however, I've got a bunch of questions that came up during play.

We played the Campaign scenario, and were a bit befuddled about several things.

First, the rules questions:

7.4.4 - "In situations where several modifiers apply, the least expensive takes precedence." So if a card is in the control pile of player A, (7.4.2) but is of a different religion (7.4.3), and a Player successfully defends a takeover attempt in the bidding phase with a bid of 10, does he pay 10 crowns (doubled by 7.4.3 and then halved by 7.4.2) or 5 (7.4.4 says LEAST expensive TAKES PRECEDENCE)?

12.3.3.2, 18.3.5 - Does Elite Cavalry take a hit and invert to light cavalry? The rule specifies only elite infantry and Gendarmes, but the elite cavalry to light cavalry seems a natural progression. I didn't know if that was an oversight or intentional.

On a related note, do I correctly assume that during the financial, phase if you want to bring a Reiter back up to Gendarme, it costs 2 crowns? (1 for the maintenance, and one for the upgrade?)

12.5.2, 18.10.3 - "If a garrison is left behind, however, the province is conquered. Place a marker of the conquering player on the province and put the card in the Conquer section of his Player Mat (if a single-province state)." Does this mean that a unit counter (that was left behind) is _replaced_ by the political counter (which counts as an infantry unit)? Or does conquering a province magically _create_ the unit that the political marker represents? We were really confused by the whole political marker thing. It might be worth a sidebar or table somewhere explaining how the political markers are created / used / destroyed, etc.

13.5.3, 18.7.1 -- In a case where naval units dropped off land combat units in a province, and those combat units attacked an enemy and were beaten badly, and desired to retreat, could they retreat back to their ships and then into the sea and back to a friendly province? For example, if Sweden invades a province of Poland and gets trounced, can they beat feet back to Stockholm abord the ships that brought them?

17.2.1.2 "• Mask: .... A Siege may be declared by the units that remain in the province." Does that include defending units, or only attacking units can declare a siege?

18.6.1 - "...In addition, the defender fires and any losses inflicted on the attacker are assessed before the attacker rolls the combat dice." Is that also for all rounds of combat, or just the first round?

18.6.3 - "Forest: If an attacker is fighting a battle in a forest province, all of his mounted units have their combat value LOWERED by 1 for all rounds of combat." But the Combat modifier table shows a -1 for Cavalry in mountain or forest, implying that the modifier applies to defenders in forests as well (which would make sense to me).

(As an aside, it would be worth it, I think, to have a separate Terrain Effects Combat Modifier Table)

18.8.1 - Do you roll for Leader loss after each round of combat, or only after the last round of combat? (The Rule numbering implies that it's after each combat round, but I wanted to be sure.)

19.2.2 - Can a siege last more than one turn? 19.4 impies that it can. If one uses the siege table, and rolls a 0-4, it says "Siege continues". Does it continue immediately with another roll, or does it mean wait until the next defender movement phase and choose again between relieve, sally or roll? Or does choosing to roll on the table mean that on the following turn, the defender must roll on the table again?

Finally: Counter Mix: I've received the Battle Book expansion with the counter sheet but there was no explanation of what each of the counters were. Unfortunately, I punched them and added them to the game before really taking a close look at them. I have been able to infer the meaning/use for most of the counters, but there are still a few I'm not sure of.

I'm guessing that the greenish ones which included leader Maurice were meant to replace the counters for the Republic of the United Provinces, per the errata, but which is the correct one? The one with the 4 quadrants with lions or the one with the golden lion rampant?

The garrison counters with the green banners and the indecipherable coat of arms -- Venice?

The white fleet and garrison counters with what looks like a Holy Roman Empire coat of arms -- Generic / Mercenary? Are these the ones placed per rule 12.4.2?



I would suggest posting a .pdf similar to what was on the original Tables card with updated and complete listings of _all_ chits.



Again, I really like this game, and I'm excited to get it back to the table. In fact, I'm hosting a session of it at Carnage Con this November, so I'm anxious to get these questions answered before then. :-)


(I'm posting this on both ConsimWorld and BoardGameGeek)


_________
| homas


 
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Chris Fawcett
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ThomasC wrote:
Well, I finally got my first 1/5 of a play through of this game (3 turns in 7 hours), and I have to say, I really like it! It's got some neat subtle strategy nuances which really bring out the logistical nature of warfare.


Thank you, Thomas. I really glad that you enjoyed it. There are indeed a lot of strategic subtleties. Cramming thirsty years of war into a 10-turn game was quite a feat, and I think that Mark did a very fine job making that work. It has been pure pleasure on my part working with Mark and with the game and getting it to where we are now.

ThomasC wrote:
7.4.4 - "In situations where several modifiers apply, the least expensive takes precedence." So if a card is in the control pile of player A, (7.4.2) but is of a different religion (7.4.3), and a Player successfully defends a takeover attempt in the bidding phase with a bid of 10, does he pay 10 crowns (doubled by 7.4.3 and then halved by 7.4.2) or 5 (7.4.4 says LEAST expensive TAKES PRECEDENCE)?


Five crowns. The modifiers are not combined, only the one most favorable ("least expensive") to the bidding player is used.

ThomasC wrote:
12.3.3.2, 18.3.5 - Does Elite Cavalry take a hit and invert to light cavalry? The rule specifies only elite infantry and Gendarmes, but the elite cavalry to light cavalry seems a natural progression. I didn't know if that was an oversight or intentional.


As you say, the rules specify only Elite Infantry and Gendarmes are "two-steppers."

ThomasC wrote:
On a related note, do I correctly assume that during the financial, phase if you want to bring a Reiter back up to Gendarme, it costs 2 crowns? (1 for the maintenance, and one for the upgrade?)


Each unit on the map must be maintained. Each unit to be repaired has its own cost, as well.

ThomasC wrote:
12.5.2, 18.10.3 - "If a garrison is left behind, however, the province is conquered. Place a marker of the conquering player on the province and put the card in the Conquer section of his Player Mat (if a single-province state)." Does this mean that a unit counter (that was left behind) is _replaced_ by the political counter (which counts as an infantry unit)? Or does conquering a province magically _create_ the unit that the political marker represents? We were really confused by the whole political marker thing. It might be worth a sidebar or table somewhere explaining how the political markers are created / used / destroyed, etc.


In your example, the infantry unit is needed to affect the conquest of the province, which allows a Political Marker to be placed. The marker has as one of its effects the representation of local defense forces (self-defense militia, etc.). The rules don't suggest in any way that the infantry unit would be removed from the map.

ThomasC wrote:
13.5.3, 18.7.1 -- In a case where naval units dropped off land combat units in a province, and those combat units attacked an enemy and were beaten badly, and desired to retreat, could they retreat back to their ships and then into the sea and back to a friendly province? For example, if Sweden invades a province of Poland and gets trounced, can they beat feet back to Stockholm abord the ships that brought them?


No. The retreat from combat rules are clear in where units may retreat. A Dieppe-like move isn't one of them.

ThomasC wrote:
17.2.1.2 "• Mask: .... A Siege may be declared by the units that remain in the province." Does that include defending units, or only attacking units can declare a siege?


A Siege is initiated in the defender's next Movement-Combat Phase if all the conditions that led to the siege are still present.

ThomasC wrote:
18.6.1 - "...In addition, the defender fires and any losses inflicted on the attacker are assessed before the attacker rolls the combat dice." Is that also for all rounds of combat, or just the first round?


All rounds.

ThomasC wrote:
18.6.3 - "Forest: If an attacker is fighting a battle in a forest province, all of his mounted units have their combat value LOWERED by 1 for all rounds of combat." But the Combat modifier table shows a -1 for Cavalry in mountain or forest, implying that the modifier applies to defenders in forests as well (which would make sense to me).


Yes, you are correct. The wording of this section should read more like: "Forest: If a battle is being fought in a forest province, all of both side's mounted units have their combat value LOWERED by 1 for all rounds of combat."

ThomasC wrote:
18.8.1 - Do you roll for Leader loss after each round of combat, or only after the last round of combat? (The Rule numbering implies that it's after each combat round, but I wanted to be sure.)


Yes, each round.

ThomasC wrote:
19.2.2 - Can a siege last more than one turn? 19.4 impies that it can. If one uses the siege table, and rolls a 0-4, it says "Siege continues". Does it continue immediately with another roll, or does it mean wait until the next defender movement phase and choose again between relieve, sally or roll? Or does choosing to roll on the table mean that on the following turn, the defender must roll on the table again?


Yes, it can. "Siege Continues" results require another roll on the table in the defender's next Movement-Combat Phase, so long as the conditions for the siege remain present.
 
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Chris Fawcett
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ThomasC wrote:
Counter Mix: I've received the Battle Book expansion with the counter sheet but there was no explanation of what each of the counters were. Unfortunately, I punched them and added them to the game before really taking a close look at them. I have been able to infer the meaning/use for most of the counters, but there are still a few I'm not sure of.

I'm guessing that the greenish ones which included leader Maurice were meant to replace the counters for the Republic of the United Provinces, per the errata, but which is the correct one? The one with the 4 quadrants with lions or the one with the golden lion rampant?


Check the state card for the Republic of the United Provinces and you'll quickly see which ones you need. The Addenda file in the header of the topic on ConsimWorld also mentions the counter fixes. Note that these counter fixes were originally planned to come with the English Civil War expansion (as mentioned in the addenda). We had enough room to fix these and add some other counters on a separate half-sheet and we were able to get those pushed out earlier.

ThomasC wrote:
The garrison counters with the green banners and the indecipherable coat of arms -- Venice?


Undecipherable? Check the state card for the Republic of Venice. The Addenda file mentions the counter fixes.

ThomasC wrote:
The white fleet and garrison counters with what looks like a Holy Roman Empire coat of arms -- Generic / Mercenary? Are these the ones placed per rule 12.4.2?


Check the state card for the Hanseatic League. The Addenda file mentions the counter fixes.
 
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