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Subject: I threw a tantrum during Mem44 at GenCon over rules rss

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Bryce Lynch
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So ... yeah.

Overlord game, 4v4, my family on one side and four nice strangers who all knew each other on the other. Host doesn't really know the game that well. ("No grenades don't kill infantry.", "When you roll a flag YOU retreat.") but it doesn't really matter to me, I'm just there to have fun and can easily play within whatever rules.

But it can't end there. Every. Single. Move. there's a rules discussion. A LONG one. And it doesn't help that there's this dude hanging around offering pearls of wisdom and rules adjudications and backseat strategy to both sides. He tried to offer me some advice and I gave him the death stare and said something like "I'm just going to go ahead and move over here", doing the exact opposite of what he said. He got the message and offered a nice "Im just saying, you don't need to do what I say and can play your own game." In the guys defense he was clearly really excited and loved M44. He was hoping to get i on generics, I think.

But every single move there's this rules discussion. I finally raise my voice, just a bit, get everyones attention, and say something like "Hey, can we talk about the rules less and just play the game more and have fun?"

I am absolutely miserable. My wife and daughter have put some soft jazz on their cellphones, indicating they are also in some circle of hell. (an inside family joke.) After another 45 minutes of rules discussions I snap and use an assertive voice that none can ignore. Not exactly yelling/all caps, but I'm impossible t ignore when in this voice.

"Hey. I'm having a miserable time. This constant fucking rules discussion is not fun. If we can't play the fucking game and have a good time then I'm ready to get up and leave now. Everyone needs to take it down a notch and see if we can have a good time without the debate." I then backpedaled a bit and noted that the other side (the Axis) wasn't really the problem (they were, a bit) and that he dude offering advice was the real problem.

Everyone went in to really quiet/embarrassed mode, the Axis players said something nice like "Hey, its gencon, were all supposed to be having fun", the advice dude slunk off after a few silent minutes, and we finished up the game, with my wife sandbagging her front so the game would just end. She was worked up at this point, because she thinks her and the little girl pushed me in to this, and makes several not nice side comments about wanting the game to just end.

Mea Culpa.

... maybe.

"Which pieces did you move." "How did you move them" "let me see that card you played" comments-ON_EVERY_TURN_dude was almost as bad as backseat driver dude, but I didn't have to deal with him since he wasn't on my front.


You want me to tell you where you can shove that rulebook you're clutching in your cold, dead hands?

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Ray Stantz
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If it was that bad and you didn't know the people you should have bailed a lot sooner.
Seriously your family's happiness is more important than some random strangers at a convention.
Hopefully this is a lesson learned for if this ever happens again.
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Boaty McBoatface
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bryce0lynch wrote:
So ... yeah.

Overlord game, 4v4, my family on one side and four nice strangers who all knew each other on the other. Host doesn't really know the game that well. ("No grenades don't kill infantry.", "When you roll a flag YOU retreat.") but it doesn't really matter to me, I'm just there to have fun and can easily play within whatever rules.

But it can't end there. Every. Single. Move. there's a rules discussion. A LONG one. And it doesn't help that there's this dude hanging around offering pearls of wisdom and rules adjudications and backseat strategy to both sides. He tried to offer me some advice and I gave him the death stare and said something like "I'm just going to go ahead and move over here", doing the exact opposite of what he said. He got the message and offered a nice "Im just saying, you don't need to do what I say and can play your own game." In the guys defense he was clearly really excited and loved M44. He was hoping to get i on generics, I think.

But every single move there's this rules discussion. I finally raise my voice, just a bit, get everyones attention, and say something like "Hey, can we talk about the rules less and just play the game more and have fun?"

I am absolutely miserable. My wife and daughter have put some soft jazz on their cellphones, indicating they are also in some circle of hell. (an inside family joke.) After another 45 minutes of rules discussions I snap and use an assertive voice that none can ignore. Not exactly yelling/all caps, but I'm impossible t ignore when in this voice.

"Hey. I'm having a miserable time. This constant fucking rules discussion is not fun. If we can't play the fucking game and have a good time then I'm ready to get up and leave now. Everyone needs to take it down a notch and see if we can have a good time without the debate." I then backpedaled a bit and noted that the other side (the Axis) wasn't really the problem (they were, a bit) and that he dude offering advice was the real problem.

Everyone went in to really quiet/embarrassed mode, the Axis players said something nice like "Hey, its gencon, were all supposed to be having fun", the advice dude slunk off after a few silent minutes, and we finished up the game, with my wife sandbagging her front so the game would just end. She was worked up at this point, because she thinks her and the little girl pushed me in to this, and makes several not nice side comments about wanting the game to just end.

Mea Culpa.

... maybe.

"Which pieces did you move." "How did you move them" "let me see that card you played" comments-ON_EVERY_TURN_dude was almost as bad as backseat driver dude, but I didn't have to deal with him since he wasn't on my front.


You want me to tell you where you can shove that rulebook you're clutching in your cold, dead hands?

Congratulations, you are my hero.
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Austin Andersen
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Chances are you weren't the only one that was miserable. I'm sure there were some on the other side of the table that felt exactly the same way. It most likely was due to the interference caused by the alpha spectator. Terrible that you had to suffer through such an experience. I hope you learned something from this experience though. Speak up sooner next time. Don't wait and blow up.
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Richard Keiser

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bryce0lynch wrote:
So ... yeah.

Overlord game, 4v4, my family on one side and four nice strangers who all knew each other on the other. Host doesn't really know the game that well. ("No grenades don't kill infantry.", "When you roll a flag YOU retreat.") but it doesn't really matter to me, I'm just there to have fun and can easily play within whatever rules.

But it can't end there. Every. Single. Move. there's a rules discussion. A LONG one. And it doesn't help that there's this dude hanging around offering pearls of wisdom and rules adjudications and backseat strategy to both sides. He tried to offer me some advice and I gave him the death stare and said something like "I'm just going to go ahead and move over here", doing the exact opposite of what he said. He got the message and offered a nice "Im just saying, you don't need to do what I say and can play your own game." In the guys defense he was clearly really excited and loved M44. He was hoping to get i on generics, I think.

But every single move there's this rules discussion. I finally raise my voice, just a bit, get everyones attention, and say something like "Hey, can we talk about the rules less and just play the game more and have fun?"

I am absolutely miserable. My wife and daughter have put some soft jazz on their cellphones, indicating they are also in some circle of hell. (an inside family joke.) After another 45 minutes of rules discussions I snap and use an assertive voice that none can ignore. Not exactly yelling/all caps, but I'm impossible t ignore when in this voice.

"Hey. I'm having a miserable time. This constant fucking rules discussion is not fun. If we can't play the fucking game and have a good time then I'm ready to get up and leave now. Everyone needs to take it down a notch and see if we can have a good time without the debate." I then backpedaled a bit and noted that the other side (the Axis) wasn't really the problem (they were, a bit) and that he dude offering advice was the real problem.

Everyone went in to really quiet/embarrassed mode, the Axis players said something nice like "Hey, its gencon, were all supposed to be having fun", the advice dude slunk off after a few silent minutes, and we finished up the game, with my wife sandbagging her front so the game would just end. She was worked up at this point, because she thinks her and the little girl pushed me in to this, and makes several not nice side comments about wanting the game to just end.

Mea Culpa.

... maybe.

"Which pieces did you move." "How did you move them" "let me see that card you played" comments-ON_EVERY_TURN_dude was almost as bad as backseat driver dude, but I didn't have to deal with him since he wasn't on my front.


You want me to tell you where you can shove that rulebook you're clutching in your cold, dead hands?



Good times, yo!

You probably should have quietly stood up after sizing up the situation, given your family the pre-determined signal, and indicated you had an emergency you needed to attend.

End of uncomfortable situation.
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Pete Belli
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Quote:
You probably should have quietly stood up after sizing up the situation, given your family the pre-determined signal, and indicated you had an emergency you needed to attend.

End of uncomfortable situation.


Exactly right.

Pretend you have an upset stomach and feel nauseous. Nobody wants you to vomit on their game. They will be happy to see you leave the table.
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Carthoris Pyramidos
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bryce0lynch wrote:
My wife and daughter have put some soft jazz on their cellphones, indicating they are also in some circle of hell. (an inside family joke.)

LOL!
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Reed Dawley
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darthhugo wrote:
Good times, yo!

You probably should have quietly stood up after sizing up the situation, given your family the pre-determined signal, and indicated you had an emergency you needed to attend.

End of uncomfortable situation.


Is there a secret predetermined sign for going and setting someone's car on fire?

Reminds me of a story, my best friend was getting married and his mom is a wonderful woman who gets a little manic at times. Clinically so. So we had a joking plan that if he ran his finger down his nose my job as best man was to go and get her in a sleeper hold then pour whiskey on her to make it look like she was passed out drunk. All in good fun, not a real plan. He was across the room talking to people at the reception either telling someone about it or he just had an itch and so he made the motion, I stood up, pushed my chair in and started walking towards his mom. He saw me moving and started waving his arms, shaking his head and saying "Plan omega is not in effect, stand down". I went back to my seat and finished my Old Fashioned like nothing happened. I am sure he got asked some questions that night.

The moral of the story is always have a secret signal but make sure it isn't one that is easy to make accidentally.

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Jason Brown
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If I were the other team, I would have gotten up and left when you started dropping F-bombs. Seriously, why spend time with someone like that during the best 4 days in gaming? Especially when the person you're blaming for your own behavior was, by your own admission, just excited about the game.

And you did this in front of your wife and daughter, too? Classy.
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Mike Hoyt
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Rules arguments over M44?
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Richard Keiser

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blockhead wrote:
Rules arguments over M44?


It's a very deep ruleset. Lot of room for interpretation and argument.

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Boaty McBoatface
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blockhead wrote:
Rules arguments over M44?
Quote:
there's a rules discussion.


By

Quote:
Host doesn't really know the game that well.


And other players.

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J.S. Bridges
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Throwing a tantrum over any game is kind of classless and pointless. Unless you're playing for money, does the game really matter. After a few minutes, you could have said, "I forgot we have to meet somebody." Apologize to the other group and just leave. Throwing a tantrum just to show your Alpha maleness is kind of absurd. It takes very little effort to have class about a bad situation. I have used the above excuse many many many times at many conventions/game nights/other life situations when forces were causing a terrible time. If this is how you game in your life, even if a tantrum is a rare thing, I'm very glad I dont know you and dont have to ever play a game with you.
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Richard Keiser

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IMCarnochan wrote:
darthhugo wrote:
Good times, yo!

You probably should have quietly stood up after sizing up the situation, given your family the pre-determined signal, and indicated you had an emergency you needed to attend.

End of uncomfortable situation.


Is there a secret predetermined sign for going and setting someone's car on fire?

Reminds me of a story, my best friend was getting married and his mom is a wonderful woman who gets a little manic at times. Clinically so. So we had a joking plan that if he ran his finger down his nose my job as best man was to go and get her in a sleeper hold then pour whiskey on her to make it look like she was passed out drunk. All in good fun, not a real plan. He was across the room talking to people at the reception either telling someone about it or he just had an itch and so he made the motion, I stood up, pushed my chair in and started walking towards his mom. He saw me moving and started waving his arms, shaking his head and saying "Plan omega is not in effect, stand down". I went back to my seat and finished my Old Fashioned like nothing happened. I am sure he got asked some questions that night.

The moral of the story is always have a secret signal but make sure it isn't one that is easy to make accidentally.



My wife and I develop a new tell for every situation we enter... not because we are afraid of signals being stolen, but to keep it fresh and fun.

It keeps us on our toes, and sometimes we get signals mixed from past events. It is like a joke in a joke, because if we are using the tell, the situation has gotten to the point that it needs some levity.

And to echo another person's comments... if you are at GenCon, and you aren't ready for the exact situation the OP described, well then you probably shouldn't go to game conventions. Or be gaming for that matter.

1. Unprepared for potential outcomes - not too good of a gamer.

2. Unprepared for the social dynamics found at THE game convention - unrealistic about the range of people you will meet.

3. Using f-bombs NOT in the comfort of your living room with friends and family - you shouldn't really be outside until you get some refresher courses in etiquette and proper behavior.


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David B
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Say to alpha spectator "You can take my spot" then walk away. And I of course mean with your family in tow.
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Reed Dawley
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pfctsqr wrote:
Say to alpha spectator "You can take my spot" then walk away.


You skipped the fire part. That is the most important part.
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Tom Demento
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I thought the soft jazz being an inside joke for a personal hell was the signal that no one was having fun and it was time to leave the table.
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A. Mandible
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I like how the OP used his words to communicate with other human beings, and everybody on the thread is giving advice about how he could have snuck away or avoided ever talking about it.
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Mike Hoyt
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darthhugo wrote:
blockhead wrote:
Rules arguments over M44?


It's a very deep ruleset. Lot of room for interpretation and argument.



I suppose we all have our threshold for "deep", but... how do you have 45 minute argument with a guy (and his buddies) who think you retreat when you a roll a flag? That is pretty fundamental, a guy who gets that wrong is not somebody I'm bothering to argue with on anything more esoteric.
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Jim O'Neill (Established 1949)
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There is a story, probably apocryphal, that the indentation on the bottom of a Go board is to hold the blood of those who have unnecessarily commented on a game in progress. It is a Japanese custom that I would like to see enforced at some conventions.

Jim

Est. 1949





NB: I have one on the bottom of mine and the truth is that it is to enhance the sound made by the stones as they are placed on the board. I prefer the first version.

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Leo Zappa
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grasa_total wrote:
I like how the OP used his words to communicate with other human beings, and everybody on the thread is giving advice about how he could have snuck away or avoided ever talking about it.


Yeah, I noticed that as well. A lot of suggestions for passive aggressive approaches to the situation, versus direct communication, i.e. conflict avoidance versus conflict resolution. I don't know if this is a reflection of the majority of the type of people who play boardgames generally, or just BGG'ers specifically.

Everyone handles these situations differently, but myself, I'd simply have said to the table that I'm not having any fun, quickly stated the reasons why, and resigned from the game after stating my position. I probably wouldn't have dropped any F-bombs myself, if only because I tend not to use that language with strangers (with friends on the other hand...).
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Jared
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When this happens in any situation I try (key word, try) to,

1. recognize the emotions I'm feeling. Ok, I'm angry, I'm emotional

2. Why am I upset? This helps me understand that the situation doesn't deserve any emotion and that its inhibiting solutions. To keep perspective I'll keep in mind why the people that are irritating me might be acting that way (which you did) and that somewheres in the world people are struggling through pain to live at this moment and here I am getting upset about ______.

3. What are my solutions? In this case, A. stay and play but be realistic that the game won't be as fun as usual and you'll have to play with someone that is struggling with the rules and someone else that is over eager about teaching the game but is not very good at it or B. politely as possible (remember they can't really help themselves) let the other players know you are looking for more experienced players, perhaps over eager guy can help them out while you run for the hills.

I totally understand your frustrations and I think the only thing to avoid is the outburst, particularly for your own health.
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Boaty McBoatface
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desertfox2004 wrote:
grasa_total wrote:
I like how the OP used his words to communicate with other human beings, and everybody on the thread is giving advice about how he could have snuck away or avoided ever talking about it.


Yeah, I noticed that as well. A lot of suggestions for passive aggressive approaches to the situation, versus direct communication, i.e. conflict avoidance versus conflict resolution. I don't know if this is a reflection of the majority of the type of people who play boardgames generally, or just BGG'ers specifically.

Everyone handles these situations differently, but myself, I'd simply have said to the table that I'm not having any fun, quickly stated the reasons why, and resigned from the game after stating my position. I probably wouldn't have dropped any F-bombs myself, if only because I tend not to use that language with strangers (with friends on the other hand...).
I am going to suggest that maybe that is becasue they do not want to really say what they think. So are they are putting it in the politest way they can.
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Kev.
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grasa_total wrote:
I like how the OP used his words to communicate with other human beings, and everybody on the thread is giving advice about how he could have snuck away or avoided ever talking about it.

Well of course its the bloody webz.. macho upfront pussy in real life.

While swearing etc is not cool, it is also not cool to sideline coach or be so oblivious as that coach and ruin the experience. The opponents seemed like they really were clueless with this game, which could mean a lot of things!

I would have handled it differently as coach guy, opponent and OP. When I play on vassal most of the time some one wants to chip in on rules. That is fine, but I am also fine with asking them to mute their mic, I do the same in person. Strategy not so much [unless I'm losing..]
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Geoff
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The unwanted advice thing is something that happens a lot in my experience, especially when being taught a game. I tend to be ok making subpar moves and would prefer to do without the meddling, so the very first time it happens I say, "Thanks for the advice, but I would prefer to play my own hand, mistakes and all." Direct and polite usually fixes it right away.

The constant rules discussions would make me flip the table, though.
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