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Magic Realm» Forums » Rules

Subject: PEER and LOCATE tables - why have two separate searches? rss

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James Dean
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Anyone know why the game has two tables for searching?

I think, based off what I've read on these board, that originally the two tables were designed to work together but that after the 2nd Edition came out that was no longer the case.

What's the point of having the two tables now, with the 3rd Edition rules?
 
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Matt Becker
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Diggy18 wrote:
Anyone know why the game has two tables for searching?

I think, based off what I've read on these board, that originally the two tables were designed to work together but that after the 2nd Edition came out that was no longer the case.

What's the point of having the two tables now, with the 3rd Edition rules?

There are several aspects of the game that involve the Peer table, but not the Locate table.
Quote:

7.5.4 Peer and Locate:
b. The only clearing he can search is the clearing he is in.
Important Exception: If he is in a mountain clearing, he can use
the Peer Table to search any woods or mountain clearing in his
tile or any adjacent tile (he cannot search from a mountain into a
cave).

7.5.4
i. Enhanced Peer Activity: A character can record and do
the Enhanced Peer activity only when he is enabled to by a
Special Advantage, spell, or Treasure card. .... When he does the activity he rolls
the dice and consults the Peer Table to find his result. He cannot
use any other Search table.


3. FLYING ACTIVITIES
When an individual is flying, he can do the Alert and Enhanced
Peer activities without landing.

CALENDAR OF SEASONS
Blowing Leaves
6. No one can use the Search activity to roll
on the Peer Table.

2. FAMILIAR: The Witch has an invisible companion that can move
around the map separately and discover things for her.
2.1 ...it can do only the Move, Follow, and Peer activities


TOADSTOOL CIRCLE
4 For the rest of the day each time he uses the Peer table he
can search any clearing (including caves).

CRYSTAL BALL: This card allows its owner to use his regular phases
to record the enhanced Peer or remote Enchant activity

ANCIENT TELESCOPE: This card gives its owner an extra phase that
he can use to do the enhanced Peer activity, peering from one mountain
clearing to any other mountain clearing on the board.

FOG (II/GREY), the spellcaster's hex tile, Day: This spell prevents an
individual who is doing the Search activity from using the Peer table

TALK TO WISE BIRD (II/GOLD), one character, Instant: The target
character immediately does a remote Peer activity. He specifies any clearing
on the map and uses the Peer table to search that clearing.

PHANTASM (VI/PURPLE), one character, Day: This spell creates an
ethereal being (or "phantasm") that the target controls.
1....It can do only the Move, Peer and Enchant activities.

CURSES
Roll: Curse: Effect:
1 EYEMIST The target character cannot do the Search activity. He can still do the enhanced Peer activity.



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Carel Teijgeler
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To add to the above:

PEER is used to find hidden paths.

LOCATE is used for finding secret passages (and chits (treasure locations)).
 
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Quantum Jack
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I think the question is not "what are the functions of each table" but "why would the designer decide to keep 2 tables instead of consolidating"

If not, then ignore my comments.

Thematically, peering is looking across the landscapes for broad features. Locate is looking closer for specific things (hidden treasures and secret doors to secret passages).

Mechanically, it allows 2 main advantages:

1. Hosting a broader layout of possible results across a desired spectrum of probabilities.

2. Making players decide which to roll on each search phase can be an interesting decision, instead of just having a "universal search table" and simply rolling for whatever result you get.
 
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James Dean
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Quatum,

Yes that was my question. Never paid too much attention to it until I started trying to build some quests with Realmspeak's quest-builder tool, and then had to choose which table to require a player to roll on.

One difference I realized, was that if I require X result on the PEER table to fulfill some aspect of a quest, then the player has zero chance of inadvertently discovering a treasure site that might happen to be collocated with the quest objective.

The differences in the tables results are kind of interesting, and their exact impact on the game isn't obvious, not to me anyway. For example, you have very good chances of scoring a "Clues" result on the PEER table. But I'm not sure what that's for? I know there have been times when I've been traveling through a tile and had no intention of stopping, yet wanted to see what was there anyway and would record one PEER phase. Or, I suppose, if your up on a mountain looking around, you've got a decent chance of at least getting a basic idea of what's int he surrounding area.

But as you said, I suppose that's the point. Mechanically, it allows for more search results than would be possible with just one search table.

The Magic Sight table is another odd one to me. I would have thought finding things with Magic Sight would be easier than with mundane vision. I guess, thematically speaking, the idea is that you are not able to see the corporeal world as well if you're using Magic Sight, right?

 
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Jay Richardson
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James Dean wrote:
I think, based off what I've read on these board, that originally the two tables were designed to work together but that after the 2nd Edition came out that was no longer the case.

Searching for a treasure site in the 1st edition was a two-step process: you first had to get a "Glimpse Counter(s)" result on the Peer Table, and then you had to get a "Glimpse to Find" result on the Locate Table. If you failed to get a "Glimpse Counter(s)" result – or if you had only recorded one Search phase – your only hope was to roll on the Peer Table and hope for snake-eyes "Find Counter(s)".

The main effect was that treasure sites in cave clearings were difficult to find, as most characters would have to Search without Hiding to have any decent chance. Even the Hoard, if located in a cave clearing, could be ignored for the whole game; it was often just to dangerous to try to go and find it!

James Dean wrote:
The differences in the tables results are kind of interesting, and their exact impact on the game isn't obvious, not to me anyway. For example, you have very good chances of scoring a "Clues" result on the PEER table. But I'm not sure what that's for?

"Clues" are most useful when you want to see what's in a tile without revealing this to the other players. For example, you move into a tile, do two Search phases, and then move back out. If you get a "Clues" result, you get to see what Sound & Warning chits are in that tile... but nobody else does. (You didn't end your turn in the tile, so the chits are not turned over.)

James Dean wrote:
The Magic Sight table is another odd one to me. I would have thought finding things with Magic Sight would be easier than with mundane vision. I guess, thematically speaking, the idea is that you are not able to see the corporeal world as well if you're using Magic Sight, right?

Yes, but note that some things are easier with Magic Sight. You can learn (but not awaken) Spells without any chance of being cursed. And, although it's harder to loot treasures with Magic Sight, it's easier to get the good ones, as you take each treasure you find from the top of the pile.
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GodRob
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James, as you mentioned, Peer is great when you are in the mountains and want to see what is in adjacent tiles. Sometimes the map layout can make travelling to that tile quite a long journey and Peering from a mountain can let you know whether that trip will be worthwhile. You also have the chance of finding Hidden Paths if you select a clearing that is on either end of the path.

I use this quite often.
 
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