$18.00
GeekGold Bonus for All Supporters: 126.34

7,507 Supporters

$15 min for supporter badge & GeekGold bonus
47.3% of Goal | left

Support:

Recommend
1 
 Thumb up
 Hide
18 Posts

Star Wars: Rebellion» Forums » Rules

Subject: Lack of clarity about leaders already present in systems rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Mark Chiddicks
msg tools
The rules as written seem to assume every mission or system activation happens in a system that currently contains no leaders, when in reality this is often not the case.

I think I understand how it works for missions, but I can't find a clear answer for combats.

For missions:

- The active player moves 1 or 2 leaders into a system.
- The opposing player moves 0 or 1 leader into the system
- If there is no opposition, the mission succeeds automatically
- If there is opposition then ALL leaders in the system take part in the resolution of the mission, including all leaders (from either side) that were already present


For combats:

- the active player moves one leader to a system and brings in units from adjacent systems
- if any opposing forces share a theatre with these forces, a combat happens
- The acting player can only use the leader who activated the movement to lead the combat
- If the defending player has no leaders in the system, he can move 0 or 1 leader from his leader pool into the system and that leader controls his forces

BUT... what happens if the defender already has 1 or more leaders in the system?

Is the rule

a) One of the leaders already present must control the defence
b) Only a leader from the leader pool can be used to control the defence
c) the defender can choose either a or b, as preferred?

I think the answer is either a or c, but I can't find a definitive answer. can anyone assist?

I also read somewhere a claim that when multiple leaders are available to defend a system then different leaders can be used to control space and ground battles, so you get to use the highest value for each from available leaders. Is this an official rule, and if so where is it written?

Am I also wrong about the attacker, and he too can use any leader present (and possible different ones for ground and space) and not necessarily the one who activated the system?

1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Joe Pilkus
United States
South Riding
Virginia
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
If memory serves, I read in the rules or in the forum that multiple leaders for either side will garner a number of Tactic cards equal to the highest number indicated on one of the leaders. I know of no prohibition of the attacker limited to only one leader. Having said that, I have less than six games under my belt and this is an FFG game which as a publisher has a long history of poorly written or edited rules.

Cheers,
Joe
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Craig S.
United States
Seattle
Washington
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmb
Missions: the opponent always has the option to move a leader from their leader pool to oppose. Then, all leaders in the system from both sides (except for captured leaders, unless the mission targets them specifically) contribute their icons.

Combat: the opponent can move a leader with tactic values into the system IF they don't already have one there.
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Scott Lewis
United States
Thornton
Colorado
flag msg tools
NFHS Football & Basketball
badge
Dread Our Coming, Suffer Our Presence, Embrace Our Glory (Solonavi War Cry)
mbmbmbmbmb
The attacker uses the highest ground and space values, just like the defender. He doesn't have to use the leader that activated the system if there are already leaders there from prior missions or activations.
6 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jeff K
United States
Garner
North Carolina
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Yes, and you simply use the highest leadership value present for each separate theater. You do not choose one leader and use both his values, a different leader can control the space than the ground.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chris
United States
Texas / Tennessee
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Unless the "Add Leader" rule has exceptions squirreled away elsewhere, I would interpret the rules such that "A" is the answer. The "Add Leader" step lets each player add a leader at the start of combat only if he/she doesn't already have a leader with tactic values in the system.

FYI I note also that the "Add Leader" rule does not exclude the active player from adding a tactic values leader. I imagine this situation might arise if the active player assigned a non-tactical leader for a mission that introduces units into a system.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jorgen Peddersen
Australia
Sydney
New South Wales
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
I'm just consolidating answers for the individual questions asked for clarity (it's a little unclear who is discussing which questions above)...

KinginAmber wrote:
For missions:

- The active player moves 1 or 2 leaders into a system.
- The opposing player moves 0 or 1 leader into the system
- If there is no opposition, the mission succeeds automatically
- If there is opposition then ALL leaders in the system take part in the resolution of the mission, including all leaders (from either side) that were already present

Just to be clear, the following clarifications can be made:
- The active player moves the 1 or 2 leaders previously assigned to the mission in the Assignment Phase into the system.
- If the mission is Resolved, or there is no opposition, the mission succeeds automatically

Quote:
For combats:

There were a few mistakes here. The major thing that addresses them all is the rule:
RR-Combat wrote:
If a player does not have a leader with tactic values in the system, he may take one leader from his leader pool and place it in the system.

So both players get the opportunity to add and they may add one if all the leaders in the system do not have any tactics values. Even the active player may add a leader due to this, depending on how the units moved to initiate combat.

Quote:
Is the rule

a) One of the leaders already present must control the defence
b) Only a leader from the leader pool can be used to control the defence
c) the defender can choose either a or b, as preferred?

I think the answer is either a or c, but I can't find a definitive answer. can anyone assist?

As stated by the others, none of the above. The leader with the highest tactics value in each system is automatically chosen.

Quote:
I also read somewhere a claim that when multiple leaders are available to defend a system then different leaders can be used to control space and ground battles, so you get to use the highest value for each from available leaders. Is this an official rule, and if so where is it written?

It is official and is stated right here:
RR - Combat wrote:
• If a player has multiple leaders in the system, he uses the highest value from each theater.



Quote:
Am I also wrong about the attacker, and he too can use any leader present (and possible different ones for ground and space) and not necessarily the one who activated the system?

Yes, you were incorrect, but the above should sort out the confusion.
11 
 Thumb up
0.01
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Aron
Netherlands
flag msg tools
Life is game, you gotta enjoy the journey.
badge
Life may knock you down sometimes. Its up to you if you stand up and live your life to the fullest.
mbmbmbmbmb
To clarify on mission opposition:

If a revealed mission is an 'attempt' mission, then it is opposed by present enemy leaders when:
- no leader is send from leader pool but there are already leaders there
- there is a leader send to oppose in addition of any leaders there
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Giacomo Mangiarano
Italy
Castellana Grotte (BA)
BA
flag msg tools
Use the force
badge
Everything is proceeding as I have foreseen
mbmbmbmbmb
Clipper wrote:

Quote:
For combats:

There were a few mistakes here. The major thing that addresses them all is the rule:
RR-Combat wrote:
If a player does not have a leader with tactic values in the system, he may take one leader from his leader pool and place it in the system.

So both players get the opportunity to add and they may add one if all the leaders in the system do not have any tactics values. Even the active player may add a leader due to this, depending on how the units moved to initiate combat.

One mistake
You CANNOT use leaders with non tactics values to activate system.
So when you enter a system with your units you already have a leader with tactics values.
Only the defender can add 0-1 to the combat
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Craig S.
United States
Seattle
Washington
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmb
starpino wrote:
Clipper wrote:

Quote:
For combats:

There were a few mistakes here. The major thing that addresses them all is the rule:
RR-Combat wrote:
If a player does not have a leader with tactic values in the system, he may take one leader from his leader pool and place it in the system.

So both players get the opportunity to add and they may add one if all the leaders in the system do not have any tactics values. Even the active player may add a leader due to this, depending on how the units moved to initiate combat.

One mistake
You CANNOT use leaders with non tactics values to activate system.
So when you enter a system with your units you already have a leader with tactics values.
Only the defender can add 0-1 to the combat


There are situations in which the current player could pldo something that could cause a combat to start in a system in which they have no leader with tactics. In these situations, they too have the option to add a leader.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David Umstattd
United States
Austin
Texas
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
csouth154 wrote:
starpino wrote:
Clipper wrote:

Quote:
For combats:

There were a few mistakes here. The major thing that addresses them all is the rule:
RR-Combat wrote:
If a player does not have a leader with tactic values in the system, he may take one leader from his leader pool and place it in the system.

So both players get the opportunity to add and they may add one if all the leaders in the system do not have any tactics values. Even the active player may add a leader due to this, depending on how the units moved to initiate combat.

One mistake
You CANNOT use leaders with non tactics values to activate system.
So when you enter a system with your units you already have a leader with tactics values.
Only the defender can add 0-1 to the combat


There are situations in which the current player could pldo something that could cause a combat to start in a system in which they have no leader with tactics. In these situations, they too have the option to add a leader.


No I don't think so. The rules only state that the defender has the option to add a leader. I don't see anything in the rules that says the attacker also has this ability.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
James Cheng
Taiwan
Taipei City
n/a
flag msg tools
mb
David Umstattd wrote:
csouth154 wrote:
starpino wrote:
Clipper wrote:

Quote:
For combats:

There were a few mistakes here. The major thing that addresses them all is the rule:
RR-Combat wrote:
If a player does not have a leader with tactic values in the system, he may take one leader from his leader pool and place it in the system.

So both players get the opportunity to add and they may add one if all the leaders in the system do not have any tactics values. Even the active player may add a leader due to this, depending on how the units moved to initiate combat.

One mistake
You CANNOT use leaders with non tactics values to activate system.
So when you enter a system with your units you already have a leader with tactics values.
Only the defender can add 0-1 to the combat


There are situations in which the current player could pldo something that could cause a combat to start in a system in which they have no leader with tactics. In these situations, they too have the option to add a leader.


No I don't think so. The rules only state that the defender has the option to add a leader. I don't see anything in the rules that says the attacker also has this ability.


From the Reference rule:

Quote:
COMBAT

When a player moves units to a system that contains his opponent’s
units, a combat is resolved. Combat is only resolved if both players
have units in the same theater.

1 . Add Leader: If a player does not have a leader with tactic
values in the system, he may take one leader from his leader
pool and place it in the system.

• The current player (the player currently resolving his turn)
must decide if he is adding a leader before his opponent
decides.
• After adding leaders, starting with the current player, each
player may use “Start of Combat” action cards.
• Team Game: A player cannot add a leader to a system if his
teammate has a leader with tactic values in the system.
Each team can add a maximum of one leader.
• Team Game: Any step that is resolved “starting with the
current player” is resolved by that player’s team before the
other team resolves the step
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Craig S.
United States
Seattle
Washington
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmb
David Umstattd wrote:
csouth154 wrote:
starpino wrote:
Clipper wrote:

Quote:
For combats:

There were a few mistakes here. The major thing that addresses them all is the rule:
RR-Combat wrote:
If a player does not have a leader with tactic values in the system, he may take one leader from his leader pool and place it in the system.

So both players get the opportunity to add and they may add one if all the leaders in the system do not have any tactics values. Even the active player may add a leader due to this, depending on how the units moved to initiate combat.

One mistake
You CANNOT use leaders with non tactics values to activate system.
So when you enter a system with your units you already have a leader with tactics values.
Only the defender can add 0-1 to the combat


There are situations in which the current player could pldo something that could cause a combat to start in a system in which they have no leader with tactics. In these situations, they too have the option to add a leader.


No I don't think so. The rules only state that the defender has the option to add a leader. I don't see anything in the rules that says the attacker also has this ability.




Combat wrote:
Add Leader: If a player does not have a leader with tactic
values in the system, he may take one leader from his leader
pool and place it in the system.
The current player (the player currently resolving his turn)
must decide if he is adding a leader before his opponent
decides.


Here is just one situation in which the current player could initiate a combat in a system without a tactics leader: voluntarily revealing the rebel base to initiate combat against Imperial ships in the hidden base's system.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chris
United States
Texas / Tennessee
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
David Umstattd wrote:
No I don't think so. The rules only state that the defender has the option to add a leader. I don't see anything in the rules that says the attacker also has this ability.

I disagree. The Rules Reference states:
 "If a player does not have a leader with tactic values in the system, he may take one leader from his leader pool and place it in the system."

The first bullet point then goes on to clarify:
 "• The CURRENT PLAYER (the player currently resolving his turn) must decide if he is adding a leader before his opponent decides."

Combat starts either by an activation (requires a tactic values leader) or a mission or action that adds units to a system (almost always with a leader with tactic values). In these cases, the current player already has at least one leader in the system with tactic values, so is not allowed to add another leader, per the above rule.


I don't play many games (yet), but this game seems to have a decent amount of twisty rules with exceptions and special cases. Another one that came up recently is that you can't retreat if you don't have a leader in the system. (The rules do not require the retreat leader to have tactic values, however.)


Edit: ninja'd
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mark Chiddicks
msg tools
Thanks for all the answers - I had more or less figured it out from the Rules Reference by now but its good to have stuff confirmed. The learn to Play guide really should make it clear what happens when you initiate a mission or a combat in a space where leaders are already present though, because its very common and far from obvious!

I wrote this out as a guide for the people i'll be playing with - is any of this inaccurate?

Using Leaders

Missions
• Each mission will have 1 or 2 leaders assigned to it.
• When carrying out the mission all leaders assigned must move to the appropriate system.
• Your opponent can always choose to send a leader from his pool to oppose you, even if he already has leaders present.
• All leaders from either side with appropriate icons take part in resolving opposed missions
• An opposition leader with no appropriate icons is still considered to be able to oppose a mission, so you must roll at least 1 success to complete it successfully.
• If the opponent has no leaders present, success is automatic
• Captured leaders can only oppose missions that directly affect them (such as attempting to turn a prisoner to the Dark Side)

Activating Systems
• To activate a system you must move 1 leader to that system from your pool. That leader must have tactics values (Mon Mothma cannot do this)
• Any units in adjacent systems that do NOT contain your leaders can be moved into the activated system, assuming transport is available for ground units
• A combat occurs if the sides both have units in the same theatre (ground or space)
• If a combat occurs, the defender can add a leader to the system from their pool only if they have no leaders with tactics values in that system already
• Each side uses the highest values for ground and space tactics available in the system, these can come from2 different leaders. These can come from leaders that were already present and do not need to include the leader who activated the system

Other Combat Situations
• It is also possible for combat to be initiated by a mission card or by the Rebel player choosing to reveal the Rebel base, in which case it is possible for the attacker to have no leader present with tactics values. In this case the attacker may add a suitable leader from his pool
• Once in each battle each player may use a leader that is present to retreat. The leader and ALL ships (excluding TIE fighters) must retreat together - ground forces and TIE fighters can be transported by the retreating ships or left behind at the player's discretion - any forces and leaders left behind can continue with combat. The retreating leader need not have tactics values.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jorgen Peddersen
Australia
Sydney
New South Wales
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
You asked about inaccuracies, so I pointed a few minor ones out (in bold):

KinginAmber wrote:
If the mission is an 'Attempt' mission, your opponent can always choose to send a leader from his pool to oppose you, even if he already has leaders present.
• Captured leaders can only oppose missions that directly affecttarget them (such as attempting to turn a prisoner to the Dark Side)

• Any units in adjacent systems that do NOT contain your leaders can be moved into the activated system, assuming transport is available for ground units and TIE Fighters and you don't move immobile units.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Giacomo Mangiarano
Italy
Castellana Grotte (BA)
BA
flag msg tools
Use the force
badge
Everything is proceeding as I have foreseen
mbmbmbmbmb
KinginAmber wrote:

• An opposition leader with no appropriate icons is still considered to be able to oppose a mission, so you must roll at least 1 success to complete it successfully.


Adding another question.
Imperial player plays a mission with a leader that grants +2 additional success to the mission. We're in the above situation so opposing leader has no appropriate icons to oppose mission.
What does it happens if imperial roll only blank dices?
is it an automatic win for the +2 bonus? or must roll 1 success anyway?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jorgen Peddersen
Australia
Sydney
New South Wales
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
The Imperials have a total of two successes and the Rebels have rolled zero. The Mission is successful.

If it were any other way, a leader with zero icons would be better than a leader with one icon which is silly.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.