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Tichu Booster» Forums » General

Subject: Tell Me They're Kidding rss

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Dan Lokemoen
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Fraser
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Back in the days when there were less maps we played every map back to back
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David desJardins
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Sounds interesting to me. Hard to judge without seeing some examples.
 
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Magister Germanicus
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Sounds interesting to me too. When is it set for release? I didn't see it on Amazon.
 
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Eric Brosius
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Next they should do a Bridge Booster...

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Michi Hostettler
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DaviddesJ wrote:
Hard to judge without seeing some examples.

There are two examples here: https://boardgamegeek.com/image/3131120/tichu-booster

In my opinion from the playtesting sessions, they add a nice bit to the game, opening up some new possibilities and strategies and adding some more dynamics to the game, without changing its nature.
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David desJardins
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A lot of these powers are not useful if you get them after the time when they would be used? It seems like they magnify the benefit of getting good cards: not only do you score more but you are also likely to call Tichu and therefore get the best power.
 
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Michi Hostettler
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DaviddesJ wrote:
A lot of these powers are not useful if you get them after the time when they would be used?

The booster card you pick whenever they are distributed is placed in your personal supply (in front of you, face open on the table) until you decide to use it. While the effect of an used booster card does not carry over from one hand to the next, the unused booster cards do.

DaviddesJ wrote:
It seems like they magnify the benefit of getting good cards: not only do you score more but you are also likely to call Tichu and therefore get the best power.

It should be noted that the booster cards are distributed and you get the first pick regardless of whether you succeed your Tichu or not. So this could also encourage you to take some extra risk in calling a Tichu even with a mediocre hand, just in order to get the first pick ... if you really believe that one booster card is so much better than the others (they're supposed to be somewhat balanced)
Also, there are some booster cards which come in handy for busting an opposing Tichu even with a bad or 'exotic' hand.
 
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David desJardins
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Wow, that's really different from what I thought from the description. So you can have several of these cards saved up and use any of them whenever you want? That sounds awfully chaotic.

If everyone is going to get many of these cards then that seems like all the more reason to have a more balanced approach to giving them out than to give the first choice to players who call Tichu, which, whatever else it does, is certainly going to increase the advantage of getting better cards, over, say, a system where players take turns drafting first equally often.
 
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Michi Hostettler
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DaviddesJ wrote:
Wow, that's really different from what I thought from the description. So you can have several of these cards saved up and use any of them whenever you want? That sounds awfully chaotic.

Yes, you can save up several of them, and yes, this may add a little chaos at times. But remember each booster card is a one-off, so once you decide to use it it's gone.
 
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David desJardins
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It sounds like it would ok to have a more equitable system of giving them out.

I might even give first choice to the *opponent* of the Tichu caller, as an additional balancing factor (rather than anti-balancing like the official system).
 
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Eric Brosius
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It seems analogous to the practice in many traditional card games of letting the high bidder swap cards in hand to cards in the blind.
 
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Magister Germanicus
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Again... So when will this become available?
 
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Eugene van der Pijll
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GermanTodd wrote:
Again... So when will this become available?

If it has been announced just now, I'd expect to see it at Essen this year.
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David desJardins
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Eric Brosius wrote:
It seems analogous to the practice in many traditional card games of letting the high bidder swap cards in hand to cards in the blind.


Usually, though, bidding means you need to achieve a higher target to account for that (everyone bids higher).
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Dan Blum
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pijll wrote:
GermanTodd wrote:
Again... So when will this become available?

If it has been announced just now, I'd expect to see it at Essen this year.


The version details say October 13 this year, so you are correct.
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Benji
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DaviddesJ wrote:
whatever else it does, is certainly going to increase the advantage of getting better cards, over, say, a system where players take turns drafting first equally often.


I don't see how "the advantage of getting better cards" would carry over from hand to hand - unless you are REALLY good at shuffling.

You (usually) get new boosters AFTER having played a hand (there is an exception), and the system rewards risk-taking, just like higher-bidding does (see your post above). Also, ALL the boosters are useful, you mostly select them according to your play-style.

Yes, they re-introduce chaos to the game (which was kind of the designers intent with basic Tichu too, before it somehow became a rather serious game. Why do you think there are bombs and stuff...) and they are probably not for everyone. But If you are mainly playing to have fun, give them a try. Personally, i like them - just learning about the variety of all the effects is a blast, using them at the right moment is usually somewhere between satisfying and hilarious
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David desJardins
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Benji68 wrote:
I don't see how "the advantage of getting better cards" would carry over from hand to hand - unless you are REALLY good at shuffling.


I'm not sure what this means. Over the course of a game, some players are going to draw more high cards than average, and others less. Obviously, drawing more high cards is an advantage, and this booster system seems like it will magnify that advantage, because the player with more high cards will also call more Tichus and therefore get more first choices.

It feels like if the Phoenix were worth +25 instead of -25.

Quote:
You (usually) get new boosters AFTER having played a hand (there is an exception)


Huh? I thought you get a booster when someone calls Tichu, which is usually at the start of a hand.

Quote:
and the system rewards risk-taking, just like higher-bidding does (see your post above).


Seems to me the effect on whether you call Tichu is very small, mostly you are going to call it the same times you would have otherwise, but get an extra advantage.

Quote:
Also, ALL the boosters are useful, you mostly select them according to your play-style.


This also seems unlikely to me. Seems to me that people are going to figure out which ones are better, on average, and take those first.
 
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Benji
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DaviddesJ wrote:
Benji68 wrote:
You (usually) get new boosters AFTER having played a hand (there is an exception)


Huh? I thought you get a booster when someone calls Tichu, which is usually at the start of a hand.


Which is (mostly) incorrect.

DaviddesJ wrote:
Benji68 wrote:
and the system rewards risk-taking, just like higher-bidding does (see your post above).


Seems to me the effect on whether you call Tichu is very small, mostly you are going to call it the same times you would have otherwise, but get an extra advantage.


So.. what is it now. Is the effect too strong, because it "rewards players with good cards", or is it too weak? Maybe you should play it at least once before you judge its effect?


DaviddesJ wrote:
Benji68 wrote:
Also, ALL the boosters are useful, you mostly select them according to your play-style.


This also seems unlikely to me. Seems to me that people are going to figure out which ones are better, on average, and take those first.


Again: Theory vs. practice. Of course they can not be perfectly balanced (which would also be just boring). Also, you can't just take any cards. But if there are cards available (out of the 4) that are objectively "better on average", this means that there is a bigger incentive to call a risky Tichu (see your point about "very small effects" above).

I don't quite see your point of criticizing game balance or the boosters influence on the game without knowing any of the cards OR the rules.

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David desJardins
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Benji68 wrote:
DaviddesJ wrote:
Benji68 wrote:
You (usually) get new boosters AFTER having played a hand (there is an exception)


Huh? I thought you get a booster when someone calls Tichu, which is usually at the start of a hand.


Which is (mostly) incorrect.


The BGG entry has a description "written by the publisher". Obviously, if that description is wrong, then any conclusions from it are going to be wrong. I'll wait for something more official. But I do think that if the publisher puts out misinformation, or even just no information, then they can't be too surprised when speculation ensues, and some of it is wrong. Why shouldn't I speculate? Of course I might still change my mind when I actually see the rules and the cards.

As for the "contradiction", the effects can be plenty large enough to change the game balance, and still not nearly enough to change your decision to call Tichu. So I think there's not much of a contradiction there, sorry. I also think the psychology is important. Most of the people I play Tichu with enjoy it except that sometimes they get all bad cards for a night and that's not much fun. If getting bad cards also means they get worse booster choices, they are going to like that even less. If getting bad cards meant they got better booster choices, that might go a long way to ameliorating the main complaint that I do hear from people about the game.
 
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Matthias Wagner
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Well, the description is not wrong, as it actually happens after someone calls Tichu: in case of a large Tichu it happens right after drawing the cards before the round starts and in case of a small Tichu it happens after the round. Anyway it is a description and not the rules, so I didn't want to go into detail about the timing. Please feel free to speculate though.
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David desJardins
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I'll speculate that probably I'll come up with some variant that does the opposite, it would make more sense to me to give any preference to the players who got worse cards than the players who get better cards, and the people I know would like that better. Or just no preference at all and a fixed rotation. It sounds like any of these variants would work fine. I certainly don't think the game needs any more incentive for players to call Tichu.
 
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Roi espino
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Well knowing that Urs loves Cosmic Eiddex so much I can see where is this going.

Anyway my simple opinion in 2 points

1- Tichu is a Perfect game that doesn't need an expansion. So perfect it is that I been playing it almost every Thursday since 4 years ago.

2- I been playing tichu weekly for 4 years, so I will glady pay 10-15€ for an expansion even if it totally imbalances the games or makes it wrose. The worst it can happen is that this will give me 4/5 plays that will be a different experience
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Mad Scientist Philip von Doomula
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Is this targeted towards the non 4 player variants?
 
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Michi Hostettler
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Well, it's clearly geared towards and playtested for the 4 player variant, since that's by far the most popular one.

We did quite a bit of playtesting with 3 when we were lacking a 4th player, which works reasonably well if a few booster cards are taken out (which would either be overpowered or completely useless for the dummy partner).
In principle it should work with 6 as well if the booster card texts and instructions are taken with a grain of salt and adapted where needed. Howerver this is basically untested.
The Grand Seigneur is a different story ... some boosters might work. Others will be completely useless, e.g. everything related to the dog.
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