$18.00
GeekGold Bonus for All Supporters: 83.69

5,558 Supporters

$15 min for supporter badge & GeekGold bonus
35% of Goal | 27 Days Left

Support:

Recommend
 
 Thumb up
 Hide
9 Posts

Alien vs Predator: The Hunt Begins» Forums » Rules

Subject: Game mechanics and balance rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Shirley T
United States
Virginia
flag msg tools
mb
I've seen several posts on rules confusion and ways to balance the factions. I thought breaking apart a few contentious rules and explaining how they seemed to be used to balance gameplay. This is based on V2.0 rules, but applies to earlier rules as well:

Basic vs extended action: Active models USUALLY have only ONE viable action (be it basic or extended). TWO ACTIONS IS THE EXCEPTION (as in 2 basic actions), remember this. I see many posts wishing that the factions could shoot twice/attack in CC twice, etc. This would quickly destroy the balance of the game, namely special actions like: Marines get aim/shoot and Tactical Move (Range); Aliens get Paroxysm (Close combat); and Predators get Wound Treatment (Toughness).

Doors and vents: Another gripe I see is that players don’t understand why doors “disappear” when opened. The simple answer is that they serve to balance movement in the game. Aliens do not interact with doors like the other factions (they can’t simply open them) and spamming doors would make Predators OP (Shoot until they get close, slam door, laugh as you run away to find a new door to troll the Alien player with). Aliens would never attempt to engage a model in a doorway, and Marines would be hesitant to leave the safety of doorways for the same reason. The compromise is a one-time use door… and seal the bulkhead ability for Marines to still troll the Alien player a bit (realizing that Marines CANNOT survive being engage by Aliens like Predators can). Likewise, vents are an easy way for Aliens to outmaneuver Predators without overpowering the Marines (as they have Weld IT Shut!).

Engaged Tiles: The third concept players misunderstand is engaging a Tile. Many new players want to know if they can shoot WITHIN an engaged Tile. With the exception of Point Blank Shot, the answer is ALWAYS no. This is how the Alien player is able to hold it’s own against Marines and shooty Predators. It is difficult enough to get to within close combat range of one of these models! Allowing that model to then shoot an Alien that it is engaged with severely handicaps them! This is a PURPOSEFUL restriction to combat that balances a close combat faction against a shooty one. The disengage rules reinforce this: simply engaging a model is a way to tie them up and keep them on a Tile (even if you don’t attack).

Now let’s look at each faction and what their special rules do for them:

Marines: have several abilities that allow them to cope with an Alien player hiding/swarming: Aim, Burning Inferno, Rapid Fire. They also have movement denial abilities: Seal the Bulkhead, Weld it Shut!, and Tactical Move.
Finally, they have a few anti-Predator abilities that buff damage/survivability: Team Tactics and Grenade Launcher.

Aliens: counter Marines with abilities that make them harder to hit: Hide, Skulking Advance, Infested Tiles. They also relay on Force the Doors Open to counter barriers.
Against Predators: Paroxysm, and Acid Damage give them an edge in close combat.

Predators: counter Marines with abilities that make it harder to damage them: Seasoned Hunter, Field Wound Treatment.
For Aliens, they rely on discouraging swarm tactics with: Smart Disk Throw, 40mm bases, and multiple wounds.
7 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mark Stanoch
United States
Bradenton
Florida
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Very insightful analysis. Clearly you have played a number of games. So what do you think of the game's replayability?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Shirley T
United States
Virginia
flag msg tools
mb
carthagenj wrote:
Very insightful analysis. Clearly you have played a number of games. So what do you think of the game's replayability?


I actually abandoned the game because of how terrible the rules and balance were and have been working on alternate rules myself... However, the new V2.0 rules have brought me back to the table, so to speak. They really are LEAPS AND BOUNDS ahead of the initial offering, with only subtle changes. The best part is: every gripe I had about how AWEFUL the old rules were(search some of my old posts), have been DIRECLY addressed with the new rules (and in clever ways!).

My problems with replayability (after the initial campaign) boils down to this:
1. Finding 2 new people to play against that know the game
2. Single player "rules" are pitiful, to put it lightly
3. Campaign experience rules are also lacking

However, these newly released rules add a lot to replay:
1. Their is a balance! Finally!
2. Custom Forces are viable now!
3. Community involvement could add so much to this game (take a look at what has been done to games like Imperial Assault, Descent, and even X-Wing)

The Wargame rules that were promised during the Kickstarter could make or break this game in the long-run (especially when it comes to replayability)... Only time will tell if they are as well crafted as the latest Boardgame rules. Prodos has a lot of work to do to make up for the Kickstarter (did I mention I have yet to receive my order from them... three years and counting).
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
nicolas schlewitz
France
saint genis laval
flag msg tools
designer
mbmbmbmb
Hi,

I have a newbie question about the rules (V2 just downloaded). Just played once with V1.

Is Ranged combat possible from an engaged tile to the same engaged tile ?
What would be the RS modifier ? -12 ? or is it just impossible to perform such action because the rules stated Ranged Combat as "Any kind of combat allowing Models to attack one another over the distance of a couple of Tiles"

Kind regards
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Shirley T
United States
Virginia
flag msg tools
mb
schlewitz wrote:
Hi,

I have a newbie question about the rules (V2 just downloaded). Just played once with V1.

Is Ranged combat possible from an engaged tile to the same engaged tile ?
What would be the RS modifier ? -12 ? or is it just impossible to perform such action because the rules stated Ranged Combat as "Any kind of combat allowing Models to attack one another over the distance of a couple of Tiles"

Kind regards


I answered that in the first post of this thread under "Engaged Tiles".
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mikael Ringfelter
Sweden
Storvik
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
schlewitz wrote:
Hi,

I have a newbie question about the rules (V2 just downloaded). Just played once with V1.

Is Ranged combat possible from an engaged tile to the same engaged tile ?
What would be the RS modifier ? -12 ? or is it just impossible to perform such action because the rules stated Ranged Combat as "Any kind of combat allowing Models to attack one another over the distance of a couple of Tiles"

Kind regards


Range combat in an engaged till is possible at a -10 modifier.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
nicolas schlewitz
France
saint genis laval
flag msg tools
designer
mbmbmbmb
dougisitosan wrote:
schlewitz wrote:
Hi,

I have a newbie question about the rules (V2 just downloaded). Just played once with V1.

Is Ranged combat possible from an engaged tile to the same engaged tile ?
What would be the RS modifier ? -12 ? or is it just impossible to perform such action because the rules stated Ranged Combat as "Any kind of combat allowing Models to attack one another over the distance of a couple of Tiles"

Kind regards


I answered that in the first post of this thread under "Engaged Tiles".


Hi, sorry missed that. It's perfectly clear now. One last question : is it possible for a model to run through an occupied (not fully) or engaged tile and to stop the move on the next tile ?
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Shirley T
United States
Virginia
flag msg tools
mb
schlewitz wrote:
dougisitosan wrote:
schlewitz wrote:
Hi,

I have a newbie question about the rules (V2 just downloaded). Just played once with V1.

Is Ranged combat possible from an engaged tile to the same engaged tile ?
What would be the RS modifier ? -12 ? or is it just impossible to perform such action because the rules stated Ranged Combat as "Any kind of combat allowing Models to attack one another over the distance of a couple of Tiles"

Kind regards


I answered that in the first post of this thread under "Engaged Tiles".


Hi, sorry missed that. It's perfectly clear now. One last question : is it possible for a model to run through an occupied (not fully) or engaged tile and to stop the move on the next tile ?

Wow... this was tougher to answer than I thought!

A model may run through a partially occupied tile if there is space for the model to move through.

However, if that tile is ENGAGED (or will be by your model) then it gets tricky! Engaged is not well defined with regard to combat. whistle

In the definition for Close Combat, there is the phrase: "... perform other Actions while Engaged in melee" (Page 8). This seems to define an Engaged tile as "Engaged in melee"; which implies "Engaged in combat".

Therefore: "A Model can try to Disengage from combat and to do so it must spend one Action Point and pass a Close Combat Skill Test ... Disengaging counts as a movement action." (page 32)

Finally, "Each Model may perform only one Move Action (including Run Action) per Game Turn, unless specifed otherwise (page 24)

So you cannot move through an Engaged tile as leaving the tile is a second move and violates the 1 move action rule. wow

Meta-wise this makes sense: You want to be able to screen for you other models and block enemies from just bolting past you and breaking a clever flanking maneuver!
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Shirley T
United States
Virginia
flag msg tools
mb
ragman71 wrote:
Range combat in an engaged till is possible at a -10 modifier.
I just noticed this post

Unfortunately, you are mistaken. A model may not shoot WITHIN a tile as I clearly stated in the first post. Let me elaborate a bit (since the rules language is subtle and easily missed on the first read):

Definition of Ranged Combat (Pg 26): Any kind of combat allowing Models to attack one another over the distance of a couple of Tiles is called Ranged Combat and requires a successful Ranged Skill (RS) Test.
Definition of Close Combat (pg 27): Any kind of combat that allows Models to fight and attack one another while being Engaged with one another is called Close Combat and requires a successful Close Combat Skill Test.
The underlined sections make it very clear that there is no sex in the champagne room ranged combat inside an engaged tile, none. If you are fighting within an engaged tile, this meets the definition of ANY KIND OF COMBAT, and is therefore Close Combat. Abstractly, a marines may still be firing a weapon, but he/she is disadvantaged because of the proximity of the enemy. This is EXACTLY why rules like POINT BLANK SHOT exist.

Now, You may fire INTO an engaged tile from another tile(what you were referring to) at a -10, sure. But remember, the title of this section (on pg 27) is the key to this distinction: "Making a Ranged Attack at Engaged Models" not "Making a Ranged Attack within an Engaged Tile".

Clear as mud?wow
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.