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Star Trek: Ascendancy» Forums » Rules

Subject: trade agreements rss

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Angelus Seniores
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just wanted to get this clarified

i understand you exchange trade agreements with the initial trade you set up, but the rules arent clear enough on what happens next for trade negotiations.
-the way the rules read it sounds like one side could cancel its trade agreement, but this doesnt seem to automatically cancel the other side's trade (not specified in the rules), which seems a bit awkward.

also the rules say you can change trade agreements freely (as in exchanging the "1" for the "2" for example) after the initial one, but if you cancel the trade completely, can you reestablish trade freely or do you then have to be next to each other again?

just one of those open ended situations in the rules.
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John Godwin
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Angelsenior wrote:
just wanted to get this clarified

i understand you exchange trade agreements with the initial trade you set up, but the rules arent clear enough on what happens next for trade negotiations.
-the way the rules read it sounds like one side could cancel its trade agreement, but this doesnt seem to automatically cancel the other side's trade (not specified in the rules), which seems a bit awkward.

also the rules say you can change trade agreements freely (as in exchanging the "1" for the "2" for example) after the initial one, but if you cancel the trade completely, can you reestablish trade freely or do you then have to be next to each other again?

just one of those open ended situations in the rules.


You don't ever have to be next to another player, just connected through systems.
It does not say that you can't renegotiate trade agreements, so yeah, I guess you can.
 
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Bradly Billingsley
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You can cancel a trade agreement at any time, for any reason.

If someone you're trading with cancels a trade they have with you, you could immediately cancel the trade you have with them.

If you attack someone who's trading with you then you have to immediately give back the trade agreement. Whether or not you take your own back is entirely up to you.

You can renegotiate a trade agreement at any time on your end. If you're giving someone 2 and want to decrease it to 1, you can. That is considered a new trade agreement, however, and so the Romulan weakness does apply if you're swapping agreements with them. Whether or not the person you're trading with renegotiates on their end is left for them to decide.

Once you've had first contact you can trade freely with that person for the rest of the game despite where you and he may be in space.
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Marc Bennett
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first contact and trade are different.

in order to have first contact all you need is your home system connected to another home system through trade lanes and systems.

to establish trade you do have to have a ship or node adjacent to a ship or node of a rival. page 6 under establish trade agreements.
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Angelus Seniores
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Krazed459 wrote:

You can renegotiate a trade agreement at any time on your end. If you're giving someone 2 and want to decrease it to 1, you can. That is considered a new trade agreement, however, and so the Romulan weakness does apply if you're swapping agreements with them. Whether or not the person you're trading with renegotiates on their end is left for them to decide.

Once you've had first contact you can trade freely with that person for the rest of the game despite where you and he may be in space.


reading a bit more in the rules and the wording they use;

-"to give or receive a trade agreement, you must have a ship or node adjacent to them"

-"you can freely exchange a trade agreement regardless of position"

from this i do think that in the first case you must be adjacent regardless of any previous agreements you may have had with that player

for the 2nd, given that the romulan suspicious rule uses "receive" with no mention of exchange i do think that an exchange would not trigger it again so its immediately in effect.

the reasoning is i think, that if there's trade then your invisible trade ships establish that contact and allow altering it, but once its cut you have to restart the process.
 
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Jon Snow
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In one of the GenCon Report thread posts, a player reported messing with the Romulans every other turn, to stop them from getting the trade benefit with themselves! (Getting my own game later today via Gen Con Attending Pal Express).
 
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Angelus Seniores
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best for the romulans is to simply not trade with such a player as they never get any benefits while giving free resources away, not a wise strategy.
 
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Nova Cat
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Angelsenior wrote:
best for the romulans is to simply not trade with such a player as they never get any benefits while giving free resources away, not a wise strategy.

Had I been that romulan player, I would have demanded that he give me a trade agreement without receiving one of mine, until I had reaped the benefits once.

Frankly, when I play romulans, I'll probably require that my opponents not get one of my trade agreements until the round after I get theirs, so that we both get resources at the same time.

Trade is certainly more difficult with the romulans, but a savvy negotiator can compensate for the drawback.
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Marc Bennett
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Novacat wrote:
Angelsenior wrote:
best for the romulans is to simply not trade with such a player as they never get any benefits while giving free resources away, not a wise strategy.

Had I been that romulan player, I would have demanded that he give me a trade agreement without receiving one of mine, until I had reaped the benefits once.

Frankly, when I play romulans, I'll probably require that my opponents not get one of my trade agreements until the round after I get theirs, so that we both get resources at the same time.

Trade is certainly more difficult with the romulans, but a savvy negotiator can compensate for the drawback.


I believe when the initial trade happens you are required to exchange cards. But I suppose you could immediately withdraw yours back.
 
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Joe Maiz
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Krazed459 wrote:
You can cancel a trade agreement at any time, for any reason.

If someone you're trading with cancels a trade they have with you, you could immediately cancel the trade you have with them.

If you attack someone who's trading with you then you have to immediately give back the trade agreement. Whether or not you take your own back is entirely up to you.

You can renegotiate a trade agreement at any time on your end. If you're giving someone 2 and want to decrease it to 1, you can. That is considered a new trade agreement, however, and so the Romulan weakness does apply if you're swapping agreements with them. Whether or not the person you're trading with renegotiates on their end is left for them to decide.

Once you've had first contact you can trade freely with that person for the rest of the game despite where you and he may be in space.


Bradly has it - check out page 6

The basics: A ship meets another ship or system with another persons control node. Typically, you get both the option to trade and 99% of the time 'first contact' at the same time (event cards might mess things up, like Q). You can then negotiate trade with the other person for whatever you want - give me 3 for a 2 and Ill buy a beer.. whatever. After you negotiate, you can change the trade values in the course of the game, so long as neither player has attacked each other - EX: you trade 1 for 1, but 3 turns later decide to bump it up to 3 for 3.

Also, you can withdraw your trade at any time; this way you can trade a good card to another player if you choose. Your old trade partner might take his/hers back, but that's up to them.

The only sure way to stop all trade is attacking the trade partner. This stops it. As Jon Snow reported, this happened with a Rom player who kept re-trading with another player but because of their 'suspicious' culture, they never got the benefit of trading.
 
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Nova Cat
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Striker511 wrote:
As Jon Snow reported, this happened with a Rom player who kept re-trading with another player but because of their 'suspicious' culture, they never got the benefit of trading.

It was more because the player was a patsy than because of their faction drawback.
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Angelus Seniores
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GF9 confirmed these by email;

-if you take back your trade agreement, you must later be adjacent to them again to give them a new one

-even when exchanging one trade agreement for another triggers the romulan suspicious rule so its again exhausted.

-you cant negotiate a trade with a ship/fleet in mid-warp move, they must exit warp to set up trade and make a new move to continue, but allowing/refusing a ship passage through your sector/system later on can be done mid-warp

-refusing passage doesnt cancel trade automatically, its the players choice to withdraw their trade or not when this happens.

-and an important note; you may always move through systems you control regardless of rival ship's being present.
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David Culp
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I am a little confused as to how the refresh phase earning works vs revoked trade agreements. Lets say the following happens:

- I am the Federation, another player is the Klingons.
- We exchange trade agreements, say the 3 production cards.
- Later in the turn I revoke the trade agreement and take back my card.
- It is my understanding that I keep the Klingon card unless he decides to revoke also. Let us say he does not and therefore I keep the Klingon card.

At the end of the round, during income who gets the benefit?

- Does the Klingon take three production because I still have his card or do I get the benefit because I have the Klingon card?
 
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Nova Cat
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No. In that case, the Federation player would get 3 extra production.
 
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David Culp
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So essentially, if one side revokes the agreement it is in the best interest of the other side to revoke theirs also.
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George
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When you "attack" a player you break the trade agreement.

We can assume "attack" includes Ship Combat and Planetary Invasion, but probably doesn't include Hegemony against them?
 
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Nova Cat
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soosy wrote:
When you "attack" a player you break the trade agreement.

We can assume "attack" includes Ship Combat and Planetary Invasion, but probably doesn't include Hegemony against them?

You are correct.
 
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