$18.00
GeekGold Bonus for All Supporters: 91.59

5,944 Supporters

$15 min for supporter badge & GeekGold bonus
37.5% of Goal | 26 Days Left

Support:

Recommend
2 
 Thumb up
 Hide
22 Posts

Legendary: Big Trouble in Little China» Forums » General

Subject: Not solo? rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Brian M
United States
Thornton
Colorado
flag msg tools
designer
mbmbmbmbmb
Re: NOT SOLO -- change listing player numbers please
Out of curiosity, what mechanics keep you from playing solo?
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
YaVerOt YaVerOt
United States
Arvada
Colorado
flag msg tools
Armchair warriors often fail, and we've been poisoned by these fairy tales.
badge
Aoi Aoi toki ga toke dasheta.
mbmbmbmbmb
Re: NOT SOLO -- change listing player numbers please
rulebook wrote:
No Solo Rules in this Set.
....
Legendary ® : Big Trouble in Little China is designed
to focus on player interaction: reaching
out and revealing cards from each
other’s hands, flipping over the top card
of everyone’s deck and groaning at the
results, letting the player to your left
discard a card and draw, or dropping a
0-cost Hero into your opponent’s discard
pile. Play with a friend, or play with two
hands running side-by-side!


2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Aaron Jones
United Kingdom
flag msg tools
mb
Re: NOT SOLO -- change listing player numbers please
So you can play solo but have to run more than one hero? Doesn't sound too bad.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Brian M
United States
Thornton
Colorado
flag msg tools
designer
mbmbmbmbmb
Re: NOT SOLO -- change listing player numbers please
gilford wrote:
And one person ultimately wins.

Ah, OK. Somehow I was thinking this one was a co-op as well. Nevermind, dumb question then!

EDIT: Wait...BGG page and blurb say co-op. Is this like the original Legendary, where some idiot has decided that even though one player wins its still co-op somehow?
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Morten Monrad Pedersen
Denmark
flag msg tools
designer
mbmbmbmbmb
Re: NOT SOLO -- change listing player numbers please
gilford wrote:
didnt seem like 2-handed was really an intended mode.
And one person wins.


Legendary: Marvel also has one person winning, but in my opinion it plays very well in 2-handed solo as long as you don't make a setup that's easy to win when the 2 hands don't compete.

Does anyone know whether there are a lot of take that mechanics in BTiLC?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Steve Crow
United States
Iowa City
Iowa
flag msg tools
Re: NOT SOLO -- change listing player numbers please
StormKnight wrote:
EDIT: Wait...BGG page and blurb say co-op. Is this like the original Legendary, where some idiot has decided that even though one player wins its still co-op somehow?


As someone else noted, yes, it's like the original Legendary. It's "co-op" in the sense that you lose as a team, but if you win then only one player truly "win."

Big Trouble (BT) goes beyond that, in that it makes the Final Showdown rules mandatory rather than optional. With Marvel, you can say, "Yeah, he did the best against Thanos, but we all beat him." You can still do that with BT, but it really boils down to, "Yeah, once we defeated Lo Pan's scheme this week, Player C stepped in, caught the knife, threw it back, killed the bad guy, and drove off into the night."

Note that winning the Final Showdown just gives you the actual Mastermind card and the Victory Points therein. It doesn't guarantee you a win.

It's hardly unique that way. We cut our teeth on the old Minion Hunter game, and it did much the same thing.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Steve Crow
United States
Iowa City
Iowa
flag msg tools
Re: NOT SOLO -- change listing player numbers please
mortenmdk wrote:
Legendary: Marvel also has one person winning, but in my opinion it plays very well in 2-handed solo as long as you don't make a setup that's easy to win when the 2 hands don't compete.

Does anyone know whether there are a lot of take that mechanics in BTiLC?


I don't think there's a lot of it. Most of it where you interact with another player is either when you get a benefit based on what they reveal (It's All in the Reflexes/Jack) but they don't get hurt, or mutually beneficial (Son of a Bitch Must Pay/Jack).

Or it might help them and hurt you. You Gotta Help Me/Wang. But that card also gives you +3 Combat for 3 Cost, so maybe it's intended as a penalty.

Nosy But Nice/Grace helps both of you.

A couple of other cards do hurt an opponent: Under a Spell/Miao and Green-Eyed Bride/Miao.

I think that's all the "interact with another player" cards. The rare Jack card is a major Showdown winner, especially if you have a Pork Chop Express card. But as noted above, winning the Final Showdown doesn't mean you win the game.
1 
 Thumb up
0.25
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Steve Crow
United States
Iowa City
Iowa
flag msg tools
Re: NOT SOLO -- change listing player numbers please
gilford wrote:
well, if it's not "Take That", then it could work.
Any action/effect that helps one at the cost of another could be seen as a "sacrifice" for the team, or something.


As I noted, two of the Miao cards are "Take That" cards. But that's about it as far as I can tell.

For me, I play three-handed solitaire and consider the hands three separate players. I just try to explore the strategies of the game, rather than try to win as a solo player. If that makes sense.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Adelin Dumitru
Romania
Bucharest
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Re: NOT SOLO -- change listing player numbers please
StormKnight wrote:
gilford wrote:
And one person ultimately wins.

Ah, OK. Somehow I was thinking this one was a co-op as well. Nevermind, dumb question then!

EDIT: Wait...BGG page and blurb say co-op. Is this like the original Legendary, where some idiot has decided that even though one player wins its still co-op somehow?


Yeah, that "idiot" is Devin Low, who is a wonderful person and also a brilliant designer. Please go somewhere else with this arrogant attitude .
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Michael Gardner
United States
Kingston
Tennessee
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Re: NOT SOLO -- change listing player numbers please
Try to keep me from playing solo. Just try it!
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Morten Monrad Pedersen
Denmark
flag msg tools
designer
mbmbmbmbmb
Re: NOT SOLO -- change listing player numbers please
Gislef wrote:
mortenmdk wrote:
Legendary: Marvel also has one person winning, but in my opinion it plays very well in 2-handed solo as long as you don't make a setup that's easy to win when the 2 hands don't compete.

Does anyone know whether there are a lot of take that mechanics in BTiLC?


I don't think there's a lot of it. Most of it where you interact with another player is either when you get a benefit based on what they reveal (It's All in the Reflexes/Jack) but they don't get hurt, or mutually beneficial (Son of a Bitch Must Pay/Jack).

Or it might help them and hurt you. You Gotta Help Me/Wang. But that card also gives you +3 Combat for 3 Cost, so maybe it's intended as a penalty.

Nosy But Nice/Grace helps both of you.

A couple of other cards do hurt an opponent: Under a Spell/Miao and Green-Eyed Bride/Miao.

I think that's all the "interact with another player" cards. The rare Jack card is a major Showdown winner, especially if you have a Pork Chop Express card. But as noted above, winning the Final Showdown doesn't mean you win the game.


Great, thank you for your help.

Do you (or anyone else) know how the difficulty level is? In the base game of Legendary: Marvel it was much too easy to beat the mastermind for the game to be fun as a 2-handed solo.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Steve Crow
United States
Iowa City
Iowa
flag msg tools
Re: NOT SOLO -- change listing player numbers please
gilford wrote:
Steve, does the "character/theme" of the game come through for a solo player?

For LEgendary games, this seems really unique due to the theme. Marvel didnt mesh with me because it seemed too generic and too mixed.


I'd say so. But again, I don't play solo games. I just play three-handed games and simulate playing three different people. There's not enough "bone over the other players" cards to make that an impossibly.

But I and my players have played a lot of Legendary. So we get what seems to be the intended, "Well, sometimes you have to bone over the other player short-term, to keep the Mastermind from winning and all players from losing."
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Steve Crow
United States
Iowa City
Iowa
flag msg tools
Re: NOT SOLO -- change listing player numbers please
mortenmdk wrote:
Great, thank you for your help.

Do you (or anyone else) know how the difficulty level is? In the base game of Legendary: Marvel it was much too easy to beat the mastermind for the game to be fun as a 2-handed solo.


Well, again, I play 3-handed solo. That seemed the optimal number to have the best chance of winning Marvel games.

I find it difficult to assess difficulty levels for Legendary games, particularly Marvel. There are too many variables. In the base game of Marvel, yes, none of the Masterminds are too tough. That's why you buy Dark City.

I'd say that Big Trouble is... difficulty 6-7. Compare that to Base Marvel being a 5, and Dark City being an 8. All IMO, of course.

The variables are things like, "Well, if you beat Magneto too easily, don't play with any X-Men the next time." If Red Skull is too easy, have him try Legacy Virus or Invincible Force Field.

One game designer I chatted with at GenCon cited that at as a problem of Marvel Legendary ("Some combinations are unbeatable!"), but I consider it an intended design. If Legacy Virus the scheme is too hard, put in more Tech heroes. If it's too easy, take them out or put in a tougher Mastermind. Even the Cosmic Cube scheme is hard if you have Galactus as the Mastermind!

To me, Marvel is never too easy or too hard to beat, because there are infinite tweaks to the game. But then, I have all the expansions. I can appreciate that if you just have base Marvel, your tweaking options are limited.

Big Trouble doesn't have a lot of tweaking options, and probably won't. What else can you add? Big Trouble 2? Oh, wait... But I'd still say the Masterminds, Villain Groups, Henchmen, et al are tougher than Base Marvel.
1 
 Thumb up
1.00
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Morten Monrad Pedersen
Denmark
flag msg tools
designer
mbmbmbmbmb
Re: NOT SOLO -- change listing player numbers please
Gislef wrote:
mortenmdk wrote:
Great, thank you for your help.

Do you (or anyone else) know how the difficulty level is? In the base game of Legendary: Marvel it was much too easy to beat the mastermind for the game to be fun as a 2-handed solo.


Well, again, I play 3-handed solo. That seemed the optimal number to have the best chance of winning Marvel games.

I find it difficult to assess difficulty levels for Legendary games, particularly Marvel. There are too many variables. In the base game of Marvel, yes, none of the Masterminds are too tough. That's why you buy Dark City.

I'd say that Big Trouble is... difficulty 6-7. Compare that to Base Marvel being a 5, and Dark City being an 8. All IMO, of course.


Great, thanks, that's very useful.

Gislef wrote:
The variables are things like, "Well, if you beat Magneto too easily, don't play with any X-Men the next time." If Red Skull is too easy, have him try Legacy Virus or Invincible Force Field.

One game designer I chatted with at GenCon cited that at as a problem of Marvel Legendary ("Some combinations are unbeatable!"), but I consider it an intended design. If Legacy Virus the scheme is too hard, put in more Tech heroes. If it's too easy, take them out or put in a tougher Mastermind. Even the Cosmic Cube scheme is hard if you have Galactus as the Mastermind!


I completely agree with you.

Gislef wrote:
To me, Marvel is never too easy or too hard to beat, because there are infinite tweaks to the game. But then, I have all the expansions. I can appreciate that if you just have base Marvel, your tweaking options are limited.

Big Trouble doesn't have a lot of tweaking options, and probably won't. What else can you add? Big Trouble 2? Oh, wait... But I'd still say the Masterminds, Villain Groups, Henchmen, et al are tougher than Base Marvel.


I have everything except Civil War (and I'll be getting that) so I agree with you, but as say there's not a lot of tweaking options in Big Trouble, so if the difficulty level is as low as base game Marvel, then I'd fear that there would be too few combinations that offers a real challenge

Thank you for your help.

 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Steve Crow
United States
Iowa City
Iowa
flag msg tools
Re: NOT SOLO -- change listing player numbers please
It looks to me like the designers learned from Marvel Base, and made BT tough enough to not be a walkover. I'd rate it closer to Villains, which IMO is pretty tough Mastermind-wise except for Dr. Strange.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Darren T.
United States
Dallas/Ft. Worth area
Texas
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Well you can still play it two player & like the other Legendary games, just have two stacks of player decks & run it that way solo. Not having the solo rules just means you have another separate player deck, that's it but should play fine.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Rich M
United States
Greenwood
Indiana
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Hold on , how come they put 1- 5 players on the damn box if it cant be played with one person? Then you have on BGG and Retailer websites saying 1-5 people.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Bloody Cactus
United States
Lexington VA
flag msg tools
mbmbmb
I just got mine yesterday, and never saw this thread I've never played any legendary game, this is my first, and my wife is not a gamer, so solo was huge (Im a big LOTR LCG fan!), and I'm reading all the manual and its 'for two players..' get to the end, saw that caveat 'not designed for solo' despite being advertised as 1-5 players, and was quite pissed.

To me, playing two handed is not really playing solo.

It was suggested to me to use the Golden Solo Rules someone made for the original Legendary. Anyone have input on how that would work here for BTILC?


4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mokey D Luffy
msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
I completely agree. It is silly to state that you can play as two different people, so that is a solo version. The same can be said of every game that exists. I guess Chess is a solo game. I guess Cosmic Encounter is a solo game.

If the "solo variant" has you playing two independent players, and one of them wins, then it is not a solo variant. It is something that you can do if you like, as nobody can stop you, but it is merely playing a two player game by yourself.

I was really disappointed to find out how solo "works" in this game.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Michael Gardner
United States
Kingston
Tennessee
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
BloodyCactus wrote:
I just got mine yesterday, and never saw this thread I've never played any legendary game, this is my first, and my wife is not a gamer, so solo was huge (Im a big LOTR LCG fan!), and I'm reading all the manual and its 'for two players..' get to the end, saw that caveat 'not designed for solo' despite being advertised as 1-5 players, and was quite pissed.

To me, playing two handed is not really playing solo.

It was suggested to me to use the Golden Solo Rules someone made for the original Legendary. Anyone have input on how that would work here for BTILC?




It's a bit different than playing Chess solo. You play two characters (something that happens in lots of solo and multi player games) and you win if you defeat the mastermind. The first Legendary Marvel game is the same way.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Andrew Brenycz
msg tools
mb
I feel like this is a miscommunication with the rulebook and not intended to short change solo gamers. In legendary encounters alien, if you play with one hand then the game is very easy. Many decided to remedy that by playing two hands side by side, or house ruling the game to increase difficulty. Many also house rule what the Coordinate cards do when playing only one hand. Despite the rules having no info on how to do it, I'm pretty sure some house rules could allow the player to accomplish it. I picked this up for solo play as a major fan of the movie so I will be experimenting with that.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
United States
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Kirk Agathon wrote:
The first Legendary Marvel game is the same way.


No, the base legendary game does have solo rules. The rules have you playing with one hand and lower card counts in decks. The Advanced Solo Rules in Dark City are a couple tweeks to the rules, but most of the rules were present in the base game.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.