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Star Wars: Imperial Assault» Forums » General

Subject: Does anyone house rule Wave 1 allies cheaper? rss

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Jett Rink
United Kingdom
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Heya,

I know the cost of allies is an old topic and I've seen plenty of threads of people discussing if they're worth it, (it seems very mission/play style dependent).

But I was just wondering if anyone has tried house ruling slightly cheaper deployment costs for Han and Chewie and how that worked out?
I'm mainly wondering as it seems all the later allies they are releasing are much cheaper, so perhaps the designers feel they got the original balance slightly off.

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Pasi Ojala
Finland
Tampere
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Chewbacca's white+black defense and Protector are very good abilities when used correctly. Reducing the threat cost can easily tilt the other way. Maybe it should be tied to the imperial class deck. (-4 threat for Subversive Tactics, -3 threat for Military Might.)

Or tie the discount to adjusting the Health of the ally. -2 Health gives you -2 Threat and so on.

(And having an ally as an additional activation is very powerful in its own right.)
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Bryce K. Nielsen
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Elk Ridge
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It does look like the newer heroes have a lower overall cost. I wonder if official cost reduction cards will be coming out, as attachments. Course, that only affects skirmish, though they could always just put out campaign-only versions of the cards...

-shnar
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Rico P
Canada
Toronto
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Yep I've been playing with houseruled figures in both campaign & skirmish, so far it's going pretty well. For wave 1 I changed:
Han 12 -> 8
Chewie 15 -> 12
Vader 18 -> 13
Weiss 16 -> 12
AT-ST 14 -> 10
IG-88 12 -> 8
RGC 15 -> 12
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andy mcglothlin
United States
Texas
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I think two defense dice is still a big deal. Vader is more than a little better than the Inquisitor for instance.

Not that they shouldn't come down... I'm just not sure it's as big a deal as some people make it out to be.
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Tim Garrett
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I've been considering house-ruling that unlocking allies through green missions also allows the player to deploy them for half cost the first time they're used. Here's why:

1. As it stands, it's rare that vanilla allies are used, due to their prohibitively high cost.

2. Even if they are used, though, it's often to the rebels' disadvantage. Figure, for instance, that Han's 12 cost puts him approximately even with two grey stormtrooper groups. However, that's only true with vanilla stormtroopers- once you figure in the Imperials' active class, agenda, and reward cards, those stormtroopers are likely quite a bit more powerful. As such, unless the rebels have hit on a special synergy, their ally is more of a liability than a bonus.

3. Even if we ignore point #2 and assume that allies' worth is exactly equal to their added threat, and not tilted in favor of the Empire, the problem is that the Rebels are basically given the choice of if they want to take an option that helps them and their opponent equally, or not. That's honestly not a very interesting decision. Compare this to a red or grey mission, which gives the rebels a clear advantage if they win, and green cards seem much less appealing.

Instead, green missions unlocking a one-time half-price ally give the rebels a much clearer bonus. They have to strategically gauge when their ally will be most useful, and which missions are important enough to win as to expend their one use. It's not a sure win, but it's a definite leg up, which may force the Empire to expend his own one-off agenda cards to counteract the rebels' advantage.

I'm also pondering giving the Empire the same bonus for unlocking villains. I like the idea of missions like Vader's gaining value (as it stands, it's a hard enough mission for the Empire to win that the weak reward just isn't worth it). I also like the idea of agenda missions as a whole gaining a vote in their favor, since in my experience the rebels will typically ignore many of them.
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Thomas with Subtrendy
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It's not a bad idea, but I'd be afraid of upsetting the balance of the game.

Allies do cost a lot, but they're not supposed to be an automatic advantage- the game should already be balanced enough, any additional allies should be used strategically.

Plus, at this point in the game it's very possible that the Rebels will have had some of the newer/cheaper allies to choose from early on. If they still specifically chose Han or Chewie, perhaps they have a strategy with them that they plan on implementing, and are willing to pay the cost to pick them up.
 
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Germany
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Deutschland
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First of: The new units aren't exactly cheaper, but better for skirmish. Two Defense Dice are extremely expensive, and for a reason - a full group of Elite Stormtroopers shoting at Chewbacca without Focus might end up doing very little damage. Problem is, Skirmish games only last maximum 4 rounds, and Defense Abilities raise in value the longer the game is.

That beeing said, just played a Smuggler Deathball List with Chewbacca AND Han Solo in a small local Tournament (just 5 Players) - where most players tried out the new Wave 7 Units, so it was not super competitive. (It was a modified list from https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/187096-has-an... , using three Alliance Smugglers instead of Gideon+R2D2 to contest another objective). I won 2 Games out of 4 - the Bantha Rider Map is actually really good for the Smuggler's Deathball.

Also, in my first playthrough of the Core Campaign, my Rebels used Saboteurs or Chewbacca as Allies, depending on the Mission. That doesn't mean they are really competitive, but 1-2 threat less doesn't do much. If it's a mission with a very tight round timer, you shouldn't bring an expensive Ally anyways. If you do have time to clear the first units for 2 rounds, Chewbacca, Luke or Han are still good choices in the campaign, because their ability helps to get heroes an passive ability. Removing one damage (Chewie) or Han (surge) for every shot is actually a big deal.

I think they are well balanced for the campaign. For 15 Points Chewbacca, you get Elite Stormies and one normal Stormtrooper Group. In the later Missions (where it makes sense to use Chewbacca), those go down in two activations from Fenn and Gaarkhan, for example (perhaps even less). Keep in mind that the Imperial Player can't go over 20 Points of Threat, which means he has to spend it in the first round. Also, Allies are chosen after the Imperial Player choses Open Groups, so there is a bit of mind games involved in the hope that the Imperial Player takes an Open Group he can't use in an efficent way.

Of course, not every ally is for every mission. But it wouldn't be that thematic to run around with the big heroes all the time. It also depends on the heroes, Murne can make allies cheaper and Saska can give Han an Energy Shield, which works well with his cunning ability to better the chances that his Return Fire Ability actually works.

For skirmish, there remains to be done something, the designer clearly states that playtesting was very campaign-oriented:
https://www.reddit.com/r/ImperialAssaultTMG/comments/4u24y5/...

But as I said, there is one list that for sure isn't top tier, but playable. I think it is a bit of a forum meme - the observation is right, but exagerated (and I think for Campaign, it's entirely wrong, because Chewbacca is an excellent choice in a handful of missions)
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Eric Phillips
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Subtrendy Gaming wrote:
It's not a bad idea, but I'd be afraid of upsetting the balance of the game.

Allies do cost a lot, but they're not supposed to be an automatic advantage- the game should already be balanced enough, any additional allies should be used strategically.


Why shouldn't they be? Every other reward from a side mission is an automatic advantage, why should allies (and villains) just be a situational benefit?

Seems a shame that a dozen and a half or so side missions (both Rebel and Agenda) will rarely see the light of day because allies and villains are situational while the other rewards are always beneficial.

Murne obviously helps with this as she makes allies much stronger, but she's not going to get brought to every single campaign and someone may want to try out an alternate build of hers that doesn't involve the ally-boosting abilities.

House-ruling allies and villains is a good idea, imo, for those who have gone through each campaign multiple times and want to bring those other side missions into the fold for more variety.
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Rachi C
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a1bert wrote:
Chewbacca's white+black defense and Protector are very good abilities when used correctly. Reducing the threat cost can easily tilt the other way. Maybe it should be tied to the imperial class deck. (-4 threat for Subversive Tactics, -3 threat for Military Might.)

Or tie the discount to adjusting the Health of the ally. -2 Health gives you -2 Threat and so on.

(And having an ally as an additional activation is very powerful in its own right.)


Why this difference between ST and Military Might? Is Chewie more efficent against MM than ST?
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Pasi Ojala
Finland
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Get the Imperial Assault Campaign module for Vassal from http://www.vassalengine.org/wiki/Module:Star_Wars:_Imperial_Assault
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Lunottina wrote:
Why this difference between ST and Military Might? Is Chewie more efficent against MM than ST?

The idea was based on the overall power level of the imperial class decks. It is easier for the imperial player to get rid of Chewie with the threat gained from his deployment with more powerful class decks that have good attack buffs than the more subtle class decks.
 
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I would like to but I'm not experienced enough to know what is good. I'd just be preemptively changing things based on what I've read.

Also it's a mess to do this mid campaign and/or with casual friends, especially when it seems to be more in your favor (I'm rebel in the current campaign).
 
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Mårten Cederholm
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ricope wrote:
Yep I've been playing with houseruled figures in both campaign & skirmish, so far it's going pretty well. For wave 1 I changed:
Han 12 -> 8
Chewie 15 -> 12
Vader 18 -> 13
Weiss 16 -> 12
AT-ST 14 -> 10
IG-88 12 -> 8
RGC 15 -> 12



Wow, some of those are pretty big discounts.

How has it been working out?
 
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