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Fire in the Lake» Forums » General

Subject: Ouch rss

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Daniel Blumentritt
United States
Austin
Texas
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I'm sure this sort of thing can happen to anybody if the wrong events come out, but...

So I'm NVA in the full scenario. I've started to get my force buildup into swing when the USA gets their LLRP event that allows them to put irregulars into 3 Laos/Cambodia areas and then airstrike the bases there. Since irregulars don't go out of play like other US/ARVN units in Laos/Cambodia, and since they are very cheaply put back into the map, there is really no downside for the USA. And I just lost 5 bases, right before a Coup ends up coming out, so I gained almost no resources.

The next Coup card was very close to the first, and I ended up being last on most of the cards, so all I got to do was 2 limited ops before the Coup, so I still gained very little in the way of resources.

And then on the 3rd segment, the second card up is Wild Weasels. The US enacts it of course. I'm now down to 2 bases on the map and 0 resources, and the next coup card is going to be a long way away. Thanks to just 2 events that I couldn't have stopped, after over 2 hours of gaming I haven't really even gotten to play the game yet. I still think FitL is great, but ouch, that combo is really really harsh.
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Jeff Kouba

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Ouch indeed. I do think that LRRP card is a bit ridiculous.

It's true Irregulars don't go out of play, but they do go to Available, and the US has to spend a turn doing a Train to get them back on the map. And because of their potential to do nasty things, I attack those Irregulars whenever possible. (Plus, as a Casualty they still count against Aid.)

I'm in one now as NVA, and I just endured this combo of cards...

Aces - (Free Air Strike any 1 space outside the South, degrading Trail 2 boxes.)

Oriskany - (Remove any 4 pieces from North Vietnam or, once none, Laos. Degrade Trail 2 boxes)

couldn't stop them both, so that cost me 2 bases and the Trail went to 1

After I took a turn, the US got to do...

Rolling Thunder - (Degrade Trail 2 boxes. –9 NVA Resources. NVA Ineligible through next card)

Two cards later was...

Wild Weasels - (if no shaded SA-2s, Degrade Trail 2 boxes and NVA Resources –9.)

Puh-leaze. I went to the Coup phase with 0 resources, Trail at 0, and got 4 resources for the next round.

It's a bit aggravating when a game isn't decided by good play, but by magical cards that just happened to get drawn at the right time. Events that would take several turns and buckets of resources to replicate through Ops.
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Mark J.
United States
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The LRRP card can cripple the NVA if it comes out before the NVA have had time to build up resources but after they just built bases in Laos/Cambodia. It really needs to be toned down IMHO.
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Tom Kassel
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There are some balance changes suggested by the designers that include nerfing LRRP. They are discussed elsewhere on this forum.
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Claudio Hornblower
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I had LRRP against me as a first draw in a 2-players, 2 vs. 2, game: nasty.

Anyway, that's the official variant thread:
https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1458735/us-variant-mark-and...

And specifically about LRRP:

LRRP
Long Range Recon Patrol: US places 3 Irregulars outside the South then free Air Strikes.
Patrols ambushed: 3 Irregulars map to Casualties. Shift each space they were in 1 level toward Active Opposition.
 
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Eric Guttag
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West Chester
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To all:

The modification that Volko/Mark propose to unshaded LRRP (removing the "Bases first" language) is probably a good one as current unshaded LRRP is overpowered.

With these proposed modifications, the Irregulars will more likely be placed in unoccupied Cambodian/Laos spaces to get the benefit of lowering Trail value in the Coup Round. It might make also more sense to change the Free Air Strikes to a free Advise SA with the Irregulars to allow them to eliminate, for example, any NVA Guerrillas in the space.
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Daniel Blumentritt
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As the very first draw it wouldn't have been as bad. As it was, I'd already spent a fair amount of resources acquiring guerillas and then transmogrifying them into bases, and all that was forfeited.
 
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Vez A
Germany
Kiel
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Just curious, Daniel, in your game, did NVA being put down to the dumps lead to VC or some other faction running out of control?

I ask because in a game in which I was NVA, at some point we got to a funny situation. While the US had Linebacker II ready to be dropped on NVA, which would have financially crippled NVA making them unable to do anything much at all for a while, it did not seem like a desirable thing to do as VC was then likely to run away with it. This was because NVA's Infiltration seemed like the only quick and reliable enough method for reducing opposition ---a VC base removed + opposition shifting one level toward neutral can take out up to 3 VC VPs at once.

The bigger issue in the background is that, as these COIN games are asymmetric designs, one faction being taken out of the equation often means that one or the other remaining faction has it a little easier.
 
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