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Dead of Winter: The Long Night» Forums » Rules

Subject: In colony overrun, who dies first? Unruly or normal helpless? rss

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Just
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For example, zombies overrun the colony and there are no survivors there but there are two helpless survivors (one normal and one unruly). Who dies first? What is done to choose between the two to die? I do not see anything about this in the rule book. A random choice between the two will impact the game. Seems like a miss in the rules.
 
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Thomas Grogan
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Re: In colony overrun, who dies first? Unruly or helpless?
I think Isaac had said in a recent play thru that if no player survivors are at the colony, then the game ends as no one is there to protect the helpless survivors.

https://youtu.be/9SlOsBsQyVI

Isaac's comment is near the end at the 30:30 mark
 
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Just
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The rule with helpless dying is you lose a morale for each that dies. In the case of the video example the four dying pushed their morale to zero. This will not always be the case with helpless survivors dying if morale is high enough to withstand the deaths.
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Thomas Grogan
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obviously you didn't watch the video.
but, hey. good luck in figuring all that out.


 
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Graham Charlton
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Quote:
If there are only helpless survivors at the colony, kill a helpless suvivor


That is all it says. Not helpful. I suspect it's current player chooses (or first player during the maintenance parts of the round).
 
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James Rhys
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I'd suggest the Unruly ones first, not just because it means less food required, but thematically the noisy, stroppy bugger is going to attract the nibblers first!
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tomaisin wrote:
obviously you didn't watch the video.
but, hey. good luck in figuring all that out.




I did watch the video, just late at night and my brain didn't process it. Sorry. I'm not going to go with this rule cause this actually contradicts the printed rules. I'm going to assume it was a home rule or something. Rules say to kill "a" helpless survivor, not all there, but doesn't specify order of type.
 
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AMarsReject wrote:
I'd suggest the Unruly ones first, not just because it means less food required, but thematically the noisy, stroppy bugger is going to attract the nibblers first!


That can make sense thematically. Was just hoping something official would sprout up.
 
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Bill Reed
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tomaisin wrote:
obviously you didn't watch the video.
but, hey. good luck in figuring all that out.



I think you've misunderstood what happened. If there a no survivors, you start killing off helpless survivors. In the game in the video, after they killed off the character survivors, they had 4 morale, 4'helpless survivors, and 4 more zombies to place.

Isaac realized that, and summarized that they would lose the game (because they had a zombie to place for each, and would lose a morale for each, bringing the morale to zero).

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Arra Hepina
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guy244 wrote:
tomaisin wrote:
obviously you didn't watch the video.
but, hey. good luck in figuring all that out.




I did watch the video, just late at night and my brain didn't process it. Sorry. I'm not going to go with this rule cause this actually contradicts the printed rules. I'm going to assume it was a home rule or something. Rules say to kill "a" helpless survivor, not all there, but doesn't specify order of type.


I'm with you on this one. The rules (page 14) clearly state that you remove a helpless survivor and lose 1 morale if a location is overrun and only helpless survivors are present there. Neither rules or FAQ say anything about losing the game instantly if zombies overrun the colony with no player-controlled survivors present, so either Isaac just made a mistake (perhaps it was part of the rules at earlier iteration) or they house ruled it and forgot to mention it to the viewers.

wmreed wrote:

I think you've misunderstood what happened. If there a no survivors, you start killing off helpless survivors. In the game in the video, after they killed off the character survivors, they had 4 morale, 4'helpless survivors, and 4 more zombies to place.

Isaac realized that, and summarized that they would lose the game (because they had a zombie to place for each, and would lose a morale for each, bringing the morale to zero).


Welp, that explains it then. I also got the impression that he meant that they instantly lost because the colony is overrun.
 
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Bill Reed
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guy244 wrote:
For example, zombies overrun the colony and there are no survivors there but there are two helpless survivors (one normal and one unruly). Who dies first? What is done to choose between the two to die? I do not see anything about this in the rule book. A random choice between the two will impact the game. Seems like a miss in the rules.


Player choice.
 
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richard spangle
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I'm not entirely sure, but I would guess that the First Player has the choice of who kicks off first (could make for an interesting decision).
 
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Ess Why
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wmreed wrote:
tomaisin wrote:
obviously you didn't watch the video.
but, hey. good luck in figuring all that out.



I think you've misunderstood what happened. If there a no survivors, you start killing off helpless survivors. In the game in the video, after they killed off the character survivors, they had 4 morale, 4'helpless survivors, and 4 more zombies to place.

Isaac realized that, and summarized that they would lose the game (because they had a zombie to place for each, and would lose a morale for each, bringing the morale to zero).



Nope, you can clearly see there are only 2 characters, 10 helpless survivors in the colony and they started with 8 morale before the 4 zombie overrun.

I asked about this video here:
https://boardgamegeek.com/article/21233585#21233585

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JonnyRotten
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would chime in, but he never did.
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Bill Reed
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Ok. I watched on a bigger screen and I was definitely wrong.

And so was Isaac.

P. 13 of the PDF Rulebook says

If there are only helpless survivors at the colony, kill a helpless survivor. If there are no survivors at the colony remove the zombie that would have been placed without further effect. Every time a survivor is killed (including a helpless survivor), decrease morale by 1.

You lose 1 helpless per over running zombie, helpless survivors may be at the colony alone.

Either Isaac was remembering an earlier draft of the rules, or he was tired of playing. Lol.
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JasX X
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I'd probably say roll a dice and randomize which one gets eaten, you could either 50-50 it or if you have 1 unruly and 2 normal make the unruly a 5-6 and 1-4 one of the regular ones
 
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Chuck Hurd
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An Unruly helpless counts as two Helpless for other game effects (for paying food and adding zombies). When one is killed does it move the morale track two steps?
 
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Bill Reed
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Carcking wrote:
An Unruly helpless counts as two Helpless for other game effects (for paying food and adding zombies). When one is killed does it move the morale track two steps?


Without a rule that says otherwise, I would say no.
 
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Graham Charlton
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wmreed wrote:
Carcking wrote:
An Unruly helpless counts as two Helpless for other game effects (for paying food and adding zombies). When one is killed does it move the morale track two steps?


Without a rule that says otherwise, I would say no.


Thematically speaking it should really only count as half a point of morale. That would also make for an interesting dilemma when choosing which survivors to lose.
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