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Chaos in the Old World» Forums » General

Subject: Post GW relationship, can you see FFG retheming this game? rss

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Booker Hooker
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CitOW is a gem of a game... One of the better of the many FFG games I've played. If the speculation about FFG and GW parting ways turns out to be true, I wonder if FFG would try and retheme the mechanics?
What other settings can you see these mechanics working in?
 
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Andrés Santiago Pérez-Bergquist
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There's the obvious Cthulhu…
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Alexander
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Santiago wrote:
There's the obvious Cthulhu…


I have heard that Cthulhu Wars is already pretty similar to Chaos in the old World. Maybe FFG would not release a game, if there is already another one so similar on the market? However, Cthulhu Wars is pretty expensive. Maybe it would be an oportunity for them to release a more affordable version.
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Scratches wrote:
What other settings can you see these mechanics working in?

Just look at newer games by CitOW designer Eric Lang: his last games (five or so I guess) are not a retheme, but they are developing the same mechanics. They aren't made by FFG though.
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J M
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I thought the core game could work in a sci-fi setting like Android, replacing corruption with some kind of tech, resource or control idea, but they just made a new game about corporate shenanigans in the Android world. Blood Rage is a fine game, but it's no substitute.

I think this is a "one and done" game, though I'm not sure that anything much has changed between GW and FFG anyway.
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AceAceBaby wrote:
I thought the core game could work in a sci-fi setting like Android, replacing corruption with some kind of tech, resource or control idea, but they just made a new game about corporate shenanigans in the Android world. Blood Rage is a fine game, but it's no substitute.

I think this is a "one and done" game, though I'm not sure that anything much has changed between GW and FFG anyway.


Check out the boards for Conquest and Forbidden Stars to see why people are pretty certain the relationship is coming to an end (no announcements; no new materials at the printers; rushed PoD for Adventure Card Game; GW releasing board games; FFG releasing a miniatures game).

I'd imagine that anything FFG releases that isn't Star Wars/Game of Thrones will, going forward, exist in one of their IPs. So I'd expect this, if it gets re-released, to be a T:I or Terrinoth retheme. I'd say Android, but they announced the game that I think is too similar to have them release a retheme of this in that world.
 
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Mark Bauer
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People always claim that Blood Rage (also by Eric M. Lang) is the spiritual successor to CitoW
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Patrick G.
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Anduin wrote:
People always claim that Blood Rage (also by Eric M. Lang) is the spiritual successor to CitoW

Those claims are truly unfounded once you play the game.
They play nothing alike and BR is not anywhere near as balanced.
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JH
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Aside from having asymmetrical factions with unique upgrades, and taking actions until you've spent all your power each turn, Cthulhu Wars isn't really much like CitOW at all. CW is definitely its own thing. It doesn't have any corruption, no cards, no dials. Victory requires points, but the way you get them doesn't bear any resemblance to CiTOW.
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Pierre-Alexandre Fortin
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My take as a fan of the partnership between the Warhammer franchise and FFG is that we won't be seeing anything as good even if FFG brings other franchise along the board.

CitOW, Forbidden Stars, WH,QCG, damn! All the games I enjoyed the most are not being updated

I love Blood Rage, but it is a different game for me.
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Booker Hooker
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Is the Batman clix game more similar to CitOW than Blood Rage or the Cthulhu game?
 
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Chris Turner
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How can you claim this when all of the clans are exactly the same at the start of the game?
 
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Ken B.
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Blood Rage, Chaos, and Cthulhu Wars are all three excellent games that essentially only share the power expenditure mechanism. Other than that all three feel radically different. Also, all three are in the stratosphere as far as excellent games are concerned, so there is little reason for a pissing match between fans of any of them.

Why do we need a re-themed release? Once you keep getting into stuff like Game of Thrones Cosmic Encounter, you're only a few steps removed from Cthilhu Fluxx and Pathfinder Munchkin. Let games stand on their own without a constant need to re-theme and re-release.
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Andrés Santiago Pérez-Bergquist
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franklincobb wrote:
Why do we need a re-themed release?


Because FFG's relationship with GW seems to be ending, and it would be a shame to let a game this good go out of print.
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Jonathan Moriarity
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littlemute wrote:
How can you claim this when all of the clans are exactly the same at the start of the game?

Because by the time you take your first turn, each player has a different hand of cards. In CitOW, you're all identical before you pick your faction. BR just has a more involved faction-picking mechanism: you draft cards instead of just taking a character.
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Patrick G.
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Bright Side wrote:
littlemute wrote:
How can you claim this when all of the clans are exactly the same at the start of the game?

Because by the time you take your first turn, each player has a different hand of cards. In CitOW, you're all identical before you pick your faction. BR just has a more involved faction-picking mechanism: you draft cards instead of just taking a character.
Nope. In CitOW you also have different cards. You can't ignore the different decks each faction has if you are making cards a big deal in blood rage.
 
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Timothy Young
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AceAceBaby wrote:
... I'm not sure that anything much has changed between GW and FFG anyway.


Looks like it's official that they're parting ways. FFG will no longer be publishing any games that use a GW license as of February 2017.

https://boardgamegeek.com/blogpost/57558/fantasy-flight-game...


Edit:

Here's a list of games that will be affected:

W Eric Martin wrote:

The full list of product lines leaving the Fantasy Flight Games catalog is:

• Black Crusade
• Blood Bowl: Team Manager
• Chaos in the Old World
• Chaos Marauders
• Dark Heresy
• Dark Heresy Second Edition
• Deathwatch
• Forbidden Stars
• Fury of Dracula
• Only War
• Relic
• Rogue Trader
• Space Hulk: Death Angel
• Talisman
• Warhammer: Diskwars
• Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay
• Warhammer: Invasion The Card Game
• Warhammer Quest: The Adventure Card Game
• Warhammer 40,000: Conquest
• All Fantasy Flight Supply products showing imagery licensed to Games Workshop

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Joseph Cochran
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Scratches wrote:
CitOW is a gem of a game... One of the better of the many FFG games I've played. If the speculation about FFG and GW parting ways turns out to be true, I wonder if FFG would try and retheme the mechanics?


Rex is a retheme of Dune.
Forbidden Stars is a retheme of StarCraft: the Board Game.
Talisman is a remake of its previous edition.

FFG has proven willing to take good mechanics and find a home for them, so would FFG try it? Sure, they might. Absolutely. But if they do they'll probably update and tweak the design. There's no guarantee, though.
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K
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jsciv wrote:
Forbidden Stars is a retheme of StarCraft: the Board Game.


These are very different games. Calling it a retheme is too much of a stretch.
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SirHandsome wrote:
These are very different games. Calling it a retheme is too much of a stretch.
The rules may not be 100% identical, but the games definitely have a lot in common. Forbidden Stars is Starcraft 2.0.
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jhaelen wrote:
The rules may not be 100% identical, but the games definitely have a lot in common. Forbidden Stars is Starcraft 2.0.


Rules not being 100% identical is not what I mean when i said Forbidden Stars is not a retheme. For example, the rules from Rex/Dune are not identical either, but it is only a little bit of a stretch to call Rex a retheme of Dune. I think "remake" is more accurate but whatever. They have quite a few rules differences and differences in implementation, to the point where a person would easily be justified in liking one game and hating the other. But the differences are not so great that I would bother to make a reply nitpicking over that. It's obvious that the direction is the same, and a lot of things are directly ported over from Rex to Dune.

Calling Forbidden Stars a retheme of Starcraft is a very large stretch though, I stand by that. It's not just a matter of rules. Almost nothing is directly ported over, not even fundamental things like the victory condition, the combat system, or the resource system. Forbidden Stars rules need explaining from the ground up to a Starcraft veteran They'll understand how the order stack works quicker than others but that's about it. I wouldn't even feel comfortable calling it a "remake"
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Chris J Davis
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Random_Phobosis wrote:
Scratches wrote:
What other settings can you see these mechanics working in?

Just look at newer games by CitOW designer Eric Lang: his last games (five or so I guess) are not a retheme, but they are developing the same mechanics. They aren't made by FFG though.


Which games are those?
 
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Adam Steele
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I'd like to see this rethemed with the Daedric lords of Elder Scrolls.
 
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Colin Sham
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bleached_lizard wrote:
Random_Phobosis wrote:
Scratches wrote:
What other settings can you see these mechanics working in?

Just look at newer games by CitOW designer Eric Lang: his last games (five or so I guess) are not a retheme, but they are developing the same mechanics. They aren't made by FFG though.


Which games are those?

I think he's basically referring to Blood Rage. Allegedly Blood Rage was an upgraded version of Chaos at some point. Though even if some mechanics are the same, the games don't play out very similarly and lack the inherent asymmetrical design.

So yeah, I don't agree with the sentiment. whistle
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Joshua K.
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I own both Chaos in the Old World and Blood Rage.

They are different enough to matter. Some people I play with hate one and love the other. Fortunately I like both.

I think Blood Rage is easier to play and understand and plays shorter with the 3 Age cap. Everyone starts off identical and then diverge via card plays and clan upgrades. Controlling areas is not the only focal point, but can help certain strategies and give rewards. But everyone wants to loot Yggdrasil. Achieving quests are generally more important. There are powerful card combos and huge point swings.

In Chaos in the Old World, optimally, everyone playing should know all 4 factions and how they interact. The fragile checks and balances of the game demand it. They also all play differently from the start. Controlling areas is more important for corruption and point advantage. Also keeping anyone else from getting 2 dial turns while trying to get at least 1 dial turn per turn, if not 2 yourself. So in a way there is more cooperation between players to prevent any one player from running away with the game. And of course, if everyone does too good of a job of preventing each other from bringing sufficient ruin to the Old World, the Old World wins.
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