$18.00
GeekGold Bonus for All Supporters: 132.97

7,784 Supporters

$15 min for supporter badge & GeekGold bonus
49.1% of Goal | left

Support:

Recommend
 
 Thumb up
 Hide
17 Posts

Legendary Encounters: A Firefly Deck Building Game» Forums » Rules

Subject: Book's Flaw ? rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Steve Crow
United States
Iowa City
Iowa
flag msg tools
If Book plays his Flaw, can he go pull from the defeated cards for a previous episode?

On the one hand, Book is the kind of guy where people from anywhere in his past could show up to bug him. Which seems to be the intent of his Flaw.

On the other hand, the intent seems to be that each episode is a self-contained entity. So once an episode is completed... nothing can go back and pull from it again.

Thoughts? Suggestions? Official rulings?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jason Sesta
United States
North Carolina
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Pg 16 of the rules under Ending an Episode says:

"Put all cards in the 'Verse, Combat Zone, and Operations into the Defeated Cards pile."

and

"If there are any cards left in the Episode deck, put them face-up into the Defeated Cards pile, as well. The only exception is the Inevitable card. Put if off to the side in the same orientation it was in when the Episode ended."

Since they are specifically in the defeated pile I would imagine they are eligible to come back from Book's flaw as you said. Don't see anything else to the contrary in the rules from my look through.

I'm sure they'll have to put a short FAQ out at some point anyway so maybe this will be included.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ben Cichoski
msg tools
designer
publisher
mbmbmbmbmb
Hi guys,

It was always the intent that Book could have enemies from a past episode come back to haunt him. So yes!

Thanks!
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Slathe
msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
If book's flaw brings back a character who is a current objective that has to be defeated, and had already been defeated, does the character need to be defeated again? If so, do you get the rewards again? I assume the answer is no to both.

Do returned characters trigger reveal effects? I assume not.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jay Johnson
United States
Cedar Falls
Iowa
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmb
Slathe wrote:
If book's flaw brings back a character who is a current objective that has to be defeated, and had already been defeated, does the character need to be defeated again? If so, do you get the rewards again? I assume the answer is no to both.

Do returned characters trigger reveal effects? I assume not.

I would vote that the objective was achieved the first time you defeated the enemy, so they would not necessarily need to be defeated again. Thus if the reward is listed on the Objective card, you would not get them another time when you defeat the enemy again. Though if the rewards are listed on the Enemy card itself, I don't see why you wouldn't get them (not sure if that is actually the case with any enemies, though).

I don't know exactly how "reveal" abilities are handled when enemies return from the "defeated" pile, though. I assume that mechanic is used in other Legendary/LE games in some form.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jay Johnson
United States
Cedar Falls
Iowa
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmb
I'm also wondering just what qualifies for a possible return.
For instance, the enemies from Serenity Pt 1 are "Alliance" thematically (and in the card title), but the actual printed Type of the cards are "Enemy - Ship", as opposed to other (non-ship) enemies that are listed as "Enemy - Alliance" or "Enemy - Outlaw".

The rules lawyer in me would argue that it refers to the card type, not the title. (plus I'm sick of the gorram I.A.V. Dortmunder striking the heck out of poor Serenity)
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Daniel Mandel
United States
Rhode Island
flag msg tools
designer
publisher
mbmbmbmbmb
Hi everyone,

If you defeat an enemy to complete an Objective, but that Enemy comes back from Book's flaw you don't have to defeat it again to complete that Objective, and you don't get that reward again.

The sort of exception to this is the Heart of Gold Objective. It requires you to defeat all 7 enemies in the Episode. So if one comes back from Book's flaw, you'll need to defeat it again (to reach the total of 7 defeated enemies).

Jay, the rules lawyer in you is right.
Ships won't come back from his Flaw. Just Alliance or Outlaw enemies.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Berney P.
United States
Florida
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Does the rule that says to move the Inevitable card instead of adding an Episode card to the 'verse apply to Book's flaw? Or does it refer only to when a card would be added facedown from the deck?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jay Johnson
United States
Cedar Falls
Iowa
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmb
Yenreb wrote:
Does the rule that says to move the Inevitable card instead of adding an Episode card to the 'verse apply to Book's flaw? Or does it refer only to when a card would be added facedown from the deck?

The Inevitable card is the last card drawn from the episode deck until that episode is over (either due to accomplishing/failing all objectives, or by the Inevitable card being in the Combat Zone for one of each of the players turns).

Since Book's flaw doesn't draw any cards from the Episode deck (instead, resurrecting one from the Defeated pile), it does not advance the Inevitable card.

(also as a sidenote, Inevitable cards from previous episodes are not subject to being resurrected by Book's flaw, as they cannot ever actually be defeated, but instead are just removed from play at the end of the episode)
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Trevor S.
United States
Minnesota
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Dannym77 wrote:
Hi everyone,

If you defeat an enemy to complete an Objective, but that Enemy comes back from Book's flaw you don't have to defeat it again to complete that Objective, and you don't get that reward again.

The sort of exception to this is the Heart of Gold Objective. It requires you to defeat all 7 enemies in the Episode. So if one comes back from Book's flaw, you'll need to defeat it again (to reach the total of 7 defeated enemies).

Jay, the rules lawyer in you is right.
Ships won't come back from his Flaw. Just Alliance or Outlaw enemies.


So, if you pull something like Two by Two, he is invincible, since you cannot kill him without killing Hands of Blue at the same time.

I've been playing that they come out without any special text and just their fight value is used. Too many of the enemies have special effects that do not always mesh well with the current objective or it creates odd situations.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Tom Eklund
Czech Republic
flag msg tools
mbmb
saint1012 wrote:
Dannym77 wrote:
Hi everyone,

If you defeat an enemy to complete an Objective, but that Enemy comes back from Book's flaw you don't have to defeat it again to complete that Objective, and you don't get that reward again.

The sort of exception to this is the Heart of Gold Objective. It requires you to defeat all 7 enemies in the Episode. So if one comes back from Book's flaw, you'll need to defeat it again (to reach the total of 7 defeated enemies).

Jay, the rules lawyer in you is right.
Ships won't come back from his Flaw. Just Alliance or Outlaw enemies.


So, if you pull something like Two by Two, he is invincible, since you cannot kill him without killing Hands of Blue at the same time.

I've been playing that they come out without any special text and just their fight value is used. Too many of the enemies have special effects that do not always mesh well with the current objective or it creates odd situations.


This came up during our today's game as well (Two by Two and Hands of Blue) and I would like to hear the official ruling about this occasion, if one of these cards come back to play during the following episode and it's not possible to defeat it..
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jay Johnson
United States
Cedar Falls
Iowa
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmb
there are certain scenarios where an enemy can become undefeatable. Unless they are an objective enemy (or in the case of "Heart of Gold", one of the requisite 7 enemies), the episode can be completed without defeating them (but once they get to the CZ, if you can't defeat them, they are going to inflict quite a bit of pain).

Alternatively, in that scenario, I suppose you could house-rule it so that if Book's Flaw were to pull Two-by-Two, it would also pull Hands-of-Blue along with it (or vice versa). Similar arrangements could be made for Lt. Womack and his ship (even though Book's flaw generally doesn't pull Enemy Ships).

But like I said, that is all a case of modifying the rules. Following the RAW, you have an undefeatable enemy in that situation.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Daniel Mandel
United States
Rhode Island
flag msg tools
designer
publisher
mbmbmbmbmb
Azikin wrote:
saint1012 wrote:
Dannym77 wrote:
Hi everyone,

If you defeat an enemy to complete an Objective, but that Enemy comes back from Book's flaw you don't have to defeat it again to complete that Objective, and you don't get that reward again.

The sort of exception to this is the Heart of Gold Objective. It requires you to defeat all 7 enemies in the Episode. So if one comes back from Book's flaw, you'll need to defeat it again (to reach the total of 7 defeated enemies).

Jay, the rules lawyer in you is right.
Ships won't come back from his Flaw. Just Alliance or Outlaw enemies.


So, if you pull something like Two by Two, he is invincible, since you cannot kill him without killing Hands of Blue at the same time.

I've been playing that they come out without any special text and just their fight value is used. Too many of the enemies have special effects that do not always mesh well with the current objective or it creates odd situations.


This came up during our today's game as well (Two by Two and Hands of Blue) and I would like to hear the official ruling about this occasion, if one of these cards come back to play during the following episode and it's not possible to defeat it..


Yes, if just one of them comes back you won't be able to defeat him unless the other also comes back (via another of Book's Flaws).
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Byron Olson
United States
Ramsey
Minnesota
flag msg tools
Hey...
badge
Down here...
mbmbmbmbmb
Quote:
Do returned characters trigger reveal effects? I assume not.


I don't think this was ever answered. Is there an official ruling? Did I miss the answer?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jay Johnson
United States
Cedar Falls
Iowa
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmb
soiledshortz wrote:
Quote:
Do returned characters trigger reveal effects? I assume not.


I don't think this was ever answered. Is there an official ruling? Did I miss the answer?

I'm not official, but I would vote no based on this logic:
characters remain face-up in the defeated pile, and they return to the Verse face-up (yes, most people will temporarily put all defeated Alliance/Outlaw enemies into a facedown pile in order to randomly pick one for Book's flaw but they aren't really in an unrevealed state).
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Daniel Mandel
United States
Rhode Island
flag msg tools
designer
publisher
mbmbmbmbmb
soiledshortz wrote:
Quote:
Do returned characters trigger reveal effects? I assume not.


I don't think this was ever answered. Is there an official ruling? Did I miss the answer?


It won't trigger a reveal effect.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Byron Olson
United States
Ramsey
Minnesota
flag msg tools
Hey...
badge
Down here...
mbmbmbmbmb
Dannym77 wrote:
It won't trigger a reveal effect.


Thank you Daniel.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.