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A Game of Thrones: The Card Game (Second Edition)» Forums » Rules

Subject: Action Window during Challenges Phase rss

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Seb Pod
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Can someone clarify the action windows in the challenges phase? From looking at the rules reference, I understand:

1. At the start of the challenges phase, there is an action window.

2. After attackers are declared there is an action window.

3. After defenders are declared there is an action window.

Now, If Player 1 completes their final challenge and then it will change to Player 2 declaring challenges, is there an action window before player 2 declares a challenge? Or is the action window I mentioned above (1.) only occur at the start of the entire phase? The diagram in the RR seems to show that this is a one time window at the start of the phase only. So if Player 2 decided not to do any challenges, then the last Action Window would have been after they declared defenders in the last challenge of Player 1. Is this right?

The other thing I was hoping to confirm was that once player 2 is finished, that is the end of actions for the phase. In other words, the last Action Window which exists in the Challenges Phase is after defenders are declared in the final challenge?
 
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Barry Miller
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Seb,
Thanks for trying to make sense out of the rules reference before posting your question. Doing so helps you frame your question better, so that we can offer a better answer for you!

sebpodlesny wrote:
Now, If Player 1 completes their final challenge and then it will change to Player 2 declaring challenges, is there an action window before player 2 declares a challenge? Or is the action window I mentioned above (1.) only occur at the start of the entire phase? The diagram in the RR seems to show that this is a one time window at the start of the phase only.

I think what you may be missing are two things:
1) Looking at the timing chart on page 25, do you see the directional flow line coming from the right side of box 4.3 that points to the ACTION WINDOW which is between 4.1 and 4.2? I think that's the Action Window you're asking about.
2) Also, take a look at the rule for paragraph 4.3, on page 29. This rule instructs you to proceed to the Action Window between steps 4.1 and 4.2, in the situation which you're talking about.

So in a nutshell, "Yes", there is an Action Window before Player 2 declares challenges. Both of the items I specified above directs the 2nd player to return to the Action Window between steps 4.1 and 4.2.

sebpodlesny wrote:
The other thing I was hoping to confirm was that once player 2 is finished, that is the end of actions for the phase. In other words, the last Action Window which exists in the Challenges Phase is after defenders are declared in the final challenge?

Yes, that is the last Action Window inside of the Challenges Phase. If you look closely at the wording inside box 4.3 (and again at the rule for step 4.3 on page 29), you'll see that after Player 2 is complete with his challenges, play is directed to step 4.4, which in turn directs you to step 5.1.
Edit: The above struck wording isn't correct. See Joshua's post below. He's correct. I overlooked the arrow that he's talking about, which takes you from step 4.2.6 to the Action Window between Step 4.1 and 4.2, even for the 2nd player. I focused too much on the wording of the last sentence for rule 4.3 on page 29.

I know all this sounds very complicated, but it's really only getting very technical for the purpose of answering the question. In actual play, it's much more natural!

Hope this helps!
 
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Seb Pod
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Thanks for helping clarify! Glad we've been playing it right.

Wow, I must be blind. No idea how/why I didn't look a that arrow, which makes it so clear. Can't find the blushing emoticon haha.

Yes, In playing games, it seems natural to have that opportunity to take an action. It's just that as the card pool grows, the timing of abilities is becoming more and more important. It usually falls to me in my small group to keep the "rules radar" up during games to make sure everything is fair, so it's great to have awesome people on here help make sure everyone understands!
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Joshua Siegfried
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sebpodlesny wrote:

The other thing I was hoping to confirm was that once player 2 is finished, that is the end of actions for the phase. In other words, the last Action Window which exists in the Challenges Phase is after defenders are declared in the final challenge?


Actually, I don't think this is true. I think that after every challenge (including after the last player's "final" challenge) there is an action window. That's why after "4.2.6 Challenge Ends" in the chart, the arrow goes back up to the first "Action Window". If both players pass at this point, then the challenge phase ends and you go to "4.4 Challenge phase ends".

Unless I'm mistaken, it would look like this.

Assuming no extra challenge cards are in play (Khal Drogo, A Storm of Swords, etc...)

- 2nd player finishes his 3rd challenge.
- Return to Action Window.
- First player passes.
- Second player passes.
- Challenge Phase ends.

This is important because there are cards that allow additional challenges to be made, so you never really know that a challenge is the *last* challenge. For example.

- 2nd player finishes 3rd challenge.
- Return to Action Window.
- First player passes.
- Second player ambushes in Olenna's Informant. Names Power challenge.
- Additiinal Power Challenge.
- First player passes.
- Second player passes.
- Challenge phase ends.

Olenna's Imformant
Ambush (4).
Reaction: After Olenna's Informant enters play during a challenges phase, name a challenge type. You may initiate an additional challenge of that type this phase.
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Barry Miller
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Joshua is correct! I fixed my post above.

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Pavol Salak
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well, I see that from 4.2.6 the arrow points back to 4.3, not to the initial action window box. and 4.3 states "If all players have
been active player, proceed to 4.4.". So, I think that after the last challenge of the challenges phase there is no action window.
 
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Joshua Siegfried
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If you want confirmation of what I said, check out this thread on CardgameDB. Those guys are much better at explaining this stuff than I am.

http://www.cardgamedb.com/forums/index.php?/topic/29477-acti...

TLDR: There is definitely the chance of an action after the last challenge is completed.
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Pavol Salak
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I stand corrected. Joshua, thank you very much for the link.
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